Dr. McDougall's Online Discussion Board

veggylvr wrote:

Asian (and other) populations have eaten white rice for centuries and are thin and healthy....or were until our fast food chains invaded them.

Not anymore. Diabetes and Heart disease has skyrocketed in these nations. They got away with it before because of laborious work, lot of walking etc, as the income and lifestyle improves in these countries, they are getting Just as fat as Americans. Doesn't that suggest it is the laborious work, active lifestyle that kept them trim despite eating white rice and not other way around?


In other words, same Asians, if they went back to previous way of life style keeping the present diet, I bet you will get very similar results to what they were getting prior to diet change.

Not anymore. Diabetes and Heart disease has skyrocketed in these nations. They got away with it before because of laborious work, lot of walking etc, as the income and lifestyle improves in these countries, they are getting Just as fat as Americans. Doesn't that suggest it is the laborious work, active lifestyle that kept them trim despite eating white rice and not other way around?

In other words, same Asians, if they went back to previous way of life style keeping the present diet, I bet you will get very similar results to what they were getting prior to diet change.

No. First of all, you'd have to believe that every asian was engaging in intensive "laborous work", and that is no more true there than here. Plus, as Dr. McDougall observed in his practice in Hawaii (not a really laborous state), the elder population of asian descent was far healthier, even after immigrating, because they continued to eat the traditional starch-based diet. Yet, with each generation after that, the health declined, as they became more westernized and consumed more meat and dairy.

Besides, what you are implying is that all of the west doesn't work hard, so it's not the food we consume but the lack of hard work that has resulted in this obesity epidemic. That's obviously not correct. I mean, we have elementary and middle-school students that are obese. That was a population that previously we didn't have to worry about, yet now, they may become the first generation of Americans not to outlive their parents.

The reason diabetes and heart disease has skyrocketed in these countries is because they've adopted the western, fast-food diet of meat and dairy....not low calorie whole grain rice and plant foods.

Not to mention the infiltration of McDonald's, taco bell, burger king, KFC and other western eating practices. It is not the rice!! Ask an immigrated person from China about the food served in their restaurants. That is not real Chinese food. It is made for western tastes.

Between 1969 and 1998 the amount of animal foods in the Korean diet increased from 3.0% to 19.2%. Carbohydrate intake went down.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22692528

Between 1998 and 2009 rice consumption went down and consumption of sugary drinks went up.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23017321

For those who believe that white rice promotes diabetes read the book Walter Kempner and the Rice Diet. Dr Kempner was able to reverse diabetes in a matter of weeks on a diet of white rice, fruit, fruit juice and sugar.

As Debbie said, it's not the rice!

Here's a scientific analysis on the claims made by William Davis in his popular book "wheat belly".

Everyone can decide themselves whether William Davis is a hoax or not.

http://www.aaccnet.org/publications/ple ... 4-0177.pdf

Fuhrman is happily part of the William Davis coalition "Track your Plaque". LOL. William Davis even claims that China Study is debunked! Whether Fuhrman makes up a truth seeker or not, would be very hard to tell. That's my opinion.

Dr Fuhrman, I recently posted this reply to a post on type I diabetes, but didn't get any responses. I was wondering if you had any opinion on it...thanks..

Hi, there's lots of info on this blog about type II diabetes, but not everyone is a overweight type II. At 2 yrs old, your son is obviously a classical juvenile onset type 1 diabetic. As such, his beta cells in the isle of Langerhans, in the pancreas, do not produce enough insulin, so he must take it by injection. Type II, (formerly adult onset, has the problem of insulin resistance, which can often be arrested or reversed by a low-fat vegan diet, and weight loss, (Dr Barnard: Reversing Diabetes).

Dr Barnard and Dr McDougall both make the point that a low-fat vegan diet (whole food, plant based) is still the healthiest. Avoids complications of kidney, heart, eye, blood vessels, neuropathy, etc.

I haven't received a lot of feedback in this blog, as most seem to be type II, often overweight. I have questions myself (as a thin, type 1 1/2 or LADA) diabetic, and must take insulin 3 times a day. However, control is somewhat better on this diet, as I probably had some insulin resistance. I wish Dr McDougall or others would address the question of how many carbs, and at what times (instead of just eat all you want of healthy carbs), as with insulin too many carbs will cause blood glucose to spike, and too few will lead to a low, or hypoglycemic reaction.

I just found a great resource which may help: www.vrg.org/journal/vj2003issue2/vj2003 ... abetes.htm ..
I hope it helps. It's from the Vegetarian Resource Group, the Vegetarian Journal. Its entitled "Vegan Menu for People with Diabetes". www.PCRM.org (Dr Barnard) also has some info, a lot on children in general and diet. Of course you need to work with a medical professional in your case. Type I diabetes in young children is always a challenge, especially as you aim for a healthy vegan diet. Although not vegetarian, the American Diabetes Association, and the Juvenile Diabetes Association, also has invaluable resources.

Best of wishes to you and your son....Mike

All I can say is this: Dr. McDougall's way of eating cured me quickly while Dr. Fuhrman's made me worse.

I was desperately looking for a "cure" for my debilitating IBS-D. Dr. Fuhrman's expensive "nutritarian" diet made my condition much MUCH worse. I ended up with twice as much diarrhea. I got very sick and weak. It was awful. I was told on his message board - which I had to pay to be a part of (even to just read) - that this was healthy because getting sicker meant I was getting healthier. They call it "detoxing". I call it bull.

Then I came here where everything is free and within 5 short days (count 'em, FIVE) my 20+ years of IBS-D was gone! My tummy is calm and happy. I'm no longer chained to the toilet and for the first time in a couple of decades I'm finally having normal bowel movements - just one a day - no more running to the bathroom repeatedly, no more indigestion, no more chronic nausea, no more stomach cramps, and no more anxiety about having to be close to a bathroom at all times.

So, for me, Dr. McDougall's recommended way of eating worked like a charm, worked quickly, without any so-called "detox" and it cost me NOTHING. I didn't have to pay a membership, I didn't have to buy anything, and I'm saving a ton of money on groceries because being a "starchitarian" is much cheaper than being a "nutritarian". Notice "nutritarian" has the word "nut" in it. Well, from my personal experience, if you have IBS-D you'd have to be a nut to stuff copious amounts of raw leafy greens into your system. Might as well eat Turbo-lax for lunch every day. Seriously.

I also find the people on this message board A LOT friendlier than "over there." Those nutritarians are very cult-ish.

Lastly, I find it inappropriate for Dr. Fuhrman to post here for any reason.

I would not assume that all types of fiber are the same so maybe some people are helped more by the fiber from starch which is the eating style of most traditional diets. Most islander diets like the 1949 okinawa diet are based on large amounts of tubers and these tend to be the champions in stool amount.

Hard to believe it's been over a year since this furor erupted. Lemontree, at the time many people expressed some of the same sentiments you have stated. In the end I believe Dr. McDougall voiced his opinion that the things all the plant strong doctors had in common was more important than the differences that divided them and asked that we try to focus on those important common messages, which are likely to benefit all of us.

I think many members have taken the best of the lifestyle advice they received regardless of who was offering it.

It might be best to let sleeping dogs lie for this thread, and perhaps open a new one if you believe you have specific concerns that you feel should be voiced in these forums.

Mark

What's going on with Dr Fuhrman these days? Just curious. Lately you don't hear anything on his program, practice etc. Wondering his forum is still active. You also don't see him much in media these days. Wonder his carrier has taken back after the controversy that erupted last year.

I request everyone to be respectful while stating their opinion. Thanks

Chimichanga wrote:What's going on with Dr Fuhrman these days? Just curious.

His web forums are as active as ever. His annual holiday challenge started 2 days ago and will soon have 2 more contests starting. He's been on Dr. Oz a number of times in the past few months and appeared last night on HLN network I don't get that station so have no idea how it went). His cookbook was released recently and immediately went to #1 on Amazon. He released his third children's book, too. He's been working on a new PBS special. He has a new book to be released in early 2014 on heart health, replacing the limited publication Cholesterol Protection for Health book. His supplement and food business is thriving. He had an immersion program just a few weeks ago in Florida (?), and his Fall Immersion takes place in NJ this weekend. His Motivational Outreach counseling program is booming. His Nutritional Education Institute certification program is constantly signing up new members and revising the exams to go with the updated textbooks. The Eat to Live Yahoogroups is one of the busiest out there.

And don't forget his active Facebook & Twitter pages and blog.

Whew!

Lately you don't hear anything on his program, practice etc.

I guess you're just not looking in the right places.

lemontree wrote:All I can say is this: Dr. McDougall's way of eating cured me quickly while Dr. Fuhrman's made me worse.

I was desperately looking for a "cure" for my debilitating IBS-D. Dr. Fuhrman's expensive "nutritarian" diet made my condition much MUCH worse. I ended up with twice as much diarrhea. I got very sick and weak. It was awful. I was told on his message board - which I had to pay to be a part of (even to just read) - that this was healthy because getting sicker meant I was getting healthier. They call it "detoxing". I call it bull.

Then I came here where everything is free and within 5 short days (count 'em, FIVE) my 20+ years of IBS-D was gone! My tummy is calm and happy. I'm no longer chained to the toilet and for the first time in a couple of decades I'm finally having normal bowel movements - just one a day - no more running to the bathroom repeatedly, no more indigestion, no more chronic nausea, no more stomach cramps, and no more anxiety about having to be close to a bathroom at all times.

So, for me, Dr. McDougall's recommended way of eating worked like a charm, worked quickly, without any so-called "detox" and it cost me NOTHING. I didn't have to pay a membership, I didn't have to buy anything, and I'm saving a ton of money on groceries because being a "starchitarian" is much cheaper than being a "nutritarian". Notice "nutritarian" has the word "nut" in it. Well, from my personal experience, if you have IBS-D you'd have to be a nut to stuff copious amounts of raw leafy greens into your system. Might as well eat Turbo-lax for lunch every day. Seriously.

I also find the people on this message board A LOT friendlier than "over there." Those nutritarians are very cult-ish.

Lastly, I find it inappropriate for Dr. Fuhrman to post here for any reason.

I agree with all of this. I get so sick when I follow this eating plan. It is very scary. And the members are VERY cult-like. They treat it like a religion. There are some extremely nice people as well over there. BUT, the most popular posters are obviously a very imbalanced group of people, they are very angry and obsessed with perfection.

Therapeutic diets probably attract some who suffer from orthorexia. I just comfort myself in the fact that our ancestors really ate whatever was available and did not bother to follow any rules. Bec of uncertainties in nutrition and lack of knowledge of the super complex human body, I can't justify orthorexia unless it is driven by idol worship or ancestor worship. With increasing population, increasing pollution, and increasing food prices, the best way to survive is to not be too choosy about food and we all have to live with compromises.

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It is easy to become a millionaire or billionaire selling supplements since most people are too lazy to eat the right foods. Supplements are super refined and are not really healthy. I do need vitamin b12 supplement even though I also don't like vitamin b12 supplements.