Stents

For those questions and discussions on the McDougall program that don’t seem to fit in any other forum.

Moderators: JeffN, f1jim, Heather McDougall, John McDougall, carolve

Stents

Postby grangran7 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:50 pm

My husband has 2 heart stents as of 18 months ago. Since he's had this done, will the vegan diet be of help to him? I'm eating the McD way and feed him this way as much as I can get him to accept but I'm really concerned he's just a heart attack waiting to happen. He loves meat and rich desserts. He did NOT have a heart attack before the stents were put in but had been experiencing chest pain. How can I convince him to try this? I don't make him desserts. He just goes to town and buys them when he wants them.
grangran7
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 5:10 pm
Location: East Central Illinois

Hi

Postby f1jim » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:14 pm

Stents will help relieve his chest pain....but don't expect he is cured. He should be grateful their was no damage to his heart yet. The disease will continue to make him a highly likely candidate for further cardiac events such as a heart attack, stroke, peripheral artery disease and a whole host of other issues. Unless he makes serious changes to his diet and lifestyle the odds are he will be dead within 11 years. My mothers bypass grafts were clogging in just a year, her stents experienced restenosis in a year as well. She has made no changes to her diet and continues to deteriorate daily. This program of diet and lifestyle will STOP the heart disease in it's tracks and start the healing process within his arteries. I am a living example of the power of healthy eating. I chose this plan over the Coronary Bypass suggested by my cardiologist and have been grateful ever since. This forum has many others that have had similar success. Feel free to PM or email me if you would like to get more specific. I also recommend this website, as well. www.heartattackproof.com. Go to the articles/studies page and watch the video at the bottom of the page. I believe this will give you more than enough to get you started. Come on back and let's get started. Let's hope your husband is motivated to make some changes.
f1jim
User avatar
f1jim
 
Posts: 11295
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:45 pm
Location: Pacifica, CA

stents

Postby ncyg46 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:59 pm

I had a bypass 14 years ago, and tried to change my diet. My husband at the time wouldn't eat anything I made...but he died of a heart attack and complications from diabetes in 99. My brother-in-law had a triple bypass and then stents put in but he hasn't changed his diet. His stents clogged up in 4 months. It is important, actually very important to change, whether he likes it or not or it will continue. Now my deceased husbands brother has diabetic neuropathy in his legs and can barely walk but he still won't change. I have gone back and forth on the various plans starting with Ornish, then McDougall, Fuhrman and back to McDougall...and yes I do go off plan slightly but I rarely eat anything that is bad for me, unless the restaurant has something in it that I don't know about...and I do ask! :D and yes Jim I am being better now!
User avatar
ncyg46
 
Posts: 5471
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:38 pm
Location: Arizona, Florida

Nancy

Postby f1jim » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:25 pm

That's why you look so good!!!!
f1jim
User avatar
f1jim
 
Posts: 11295
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:45 pm
Location: Pacifica, CA

Thanks so much!

Postby grangran7 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:12 pm

Thanks for your posts and the url to Heart Attack Proof! I think you and that article and book can be much more convincing than me. I just finished reading The China Study and have also read one of Dr. McD's books. My husband has been watching me eat this way and knows I'm losing weight though I'm eating more volume than I ever have before. He wants to lose about 20 pounds so maybe this along with the heart problems will be what it takes to get him to change. I'll keep you posted and thanks again! :-D
grangran7
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 5:10 pm
Location: East Central Illinois

lol

Postby ncyg46 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:17 pm

thanks Jim....

I went to Lee Lee's oriental grocery today....

http://www.yelp.com/biz/lee-lee-orienta ... ket-peoria
there are a few weird reviews on this site but it is an amazing place! I started out by eating first at the restaurant in there...had a veggie roll and Hong Kong style hot and sour soup so that was my sodium for the entire day! It was a bit different but good.....

I stocked up on baby bok choy and some weird veggies that I have to look up, mostly weird sweet potatoes and a bitter melon that has spikes on it. have no idea how to cook them! Always fun to go there...it is organized by country so you have to figure out what country the ingredient is from!

I went there for tamarind paste and udon noodles but it is hard to read all the ingredients in chinese or whatever language it is in. They do have the sodium and fat listed so I went by that.

I do like Super L market better but I wasn't gonna drive our truck to the Chinese Cultural Center...it doesn't fit under their structure in the parking lot and I don't park this monster that well. Ed is in Florida getting his CDL license renewed which he passed but i have to pick him up Monday night in the dark at the Sky Harbor airport. I will take someone with me, it's a nightmare!

I did buy a package of nova grav lox.....last one, I promise but I will do it on a ryvita cracker with my homemade hummus instead of the other bad stuff! :D Still can't resist that stuff but I am working on it. My neighbor is going away and gave me all kinds of veggies (salad greens) out of his garden...made the biggest salad i ever had tonite with 3-2-1 dressing and some basil and tomatoes and snap peas out of my garden and ate it all....and a bit of steamed kale with lemon. Wasn't hungry for anything else..so the starch will have to wait for tomorrow...
User avatar
ncyg46
 
Posts: 5471
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:38 pm
Location: Arizona, Florida

Stent = no protection

Postby SactoBob » Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:19 pm

You should know that the stent may have relieved the pain of his disease, but did not do anything to actually treat the disease. Also, many studies have shown that this procedure does nothing in the way of extending life or protecting against a future heart attack.

As Dr. M puts it, the operation can possibly treat the disease because it is a local treatment for a systemic disease. Neither do the pills treat the disease. The bp meds, viagra, cholesterol meds and diabetes meds just mask the problem - but at least taking them may get the doctor off you.

I would recommend reading the materials referenced above and actually reversing the disease itself. It may be the best thing the two of you have ever done together.
SactoBob
 

Postby MaryW » Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:26 pm

grangran7--one thing many people don't realize is how your tastes change. You may have read comments from people on the board about this. Now I LOVE kale and I LOVE potatoes, as much as I ever did snacks or desserts. In fact, most junk foods I used to crave turn my stomach now. I know how greasy and salty they will taste and it makes me nauseous just to think about it. But it's taken me a few months to get to this point. And I know if I start eating those foods again, I will crave them again.

You say your husband loves meat and rich desserts. He will keep craving that as long as he keeps eating that. If he can just give it up for a few weeks, it will make such a difference! I highly recommend Esselstyn's book (which you see on the link that f1jim posted). The pictures of recovering arteries in it are amazing! And the stories of people who were in Esselstyn's study are so encouraging.
Image
User avatar
MaryW
 
Posts: 773
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:52 pm
Location: Virginia

Postby Mrs. Doodlepunk » Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:13 am

Grangran, my father had his first bypass surgery at age 68, his second one about 10 years later, and now at age 88 he's followed the instructions he got in his cardiac rehab classes years ago, and changed from butter to margarine, only eats fried fish once a week, takes his statin drugs, and he's got 70 percent stenosis of his aorta.

That means that his aorta - the big vessel carrying blood to the rest of the body that comes right out of the heart - has 70 percent of his opening clogged with cholesterol. The rest of the arteries in the body are in the same condition, this stuff doesn't just collect in one or two places. So his kidneys are failing, his eye sight is failing, and he has back pain from degenerating discs. He's on oxygen and can't walk more than 10 feet before having to stop and rest.'

His old bypasses are all clogged. He never had stents, but had good collateral vessels that stepped in to help and that's what he's surviving on now.

Oh, and he has always taken his statin drugs to reduce his cholesterol, (along with a boatload of other pills) so for the past 10 years he's had a cholesterol BELOW 150! Right now it is 109 or 105, I can't remember. So having a low cholesterol number from taking the statin drugs is worth nothing at all. My father refuses to change the way he eats, he refused 5 years ago when I first started on this path and he still says he won't do it. It's his decision, and it's your husband's decision what he will do too. Not to say you can't influence him and maybe get the McDougall DVD's to watch together.

Bottom line, if your husband goes with the established medical treatments for what he has, he will not do well. If he veers off and follows McDougall and Esselstyn, he will maximize his comfort and health.

Have you read Dr. Esselstyn's book? Your husband needs to see the pictures in it, they are amazing. They show the arteries in hearts before and after changing the diet to this program of plant-based low fat eating.
It IS the food! :unibrow:
(... do these earrings make my butt look big?)
User avatar
Mrs. Doodlepunk
 
Posts: 3731
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:10 pm

Mrs. Doodlepunk

Postby grangran7 » Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:56 am

Thanks for your comments and explanations. I'm sorry to say that I haven't read Dr. Esselstyn's book - yet. I'm adding more reading material quickly though and plan on getting his also. I just started this way of eating about a month ago and reading everything I can get my hands on as quickly as I can. I'm learning so much from the books but probably more from posts from all of you on this site. :)

I'm so sorry that your father wouldn't change his eating habits. I realize we can't make the decisions like this for our loved ones. :-( I will continue myself and will continue to make enough for him should he decide to try. I will continue to cook his meals for him that includes the meats though I can't hardly stand the sight or the scent of meat any longer. The same goes for milk and milk products and eggs etc. My tastes have changed.

My husband's cholesterol has always been around 150 or lower. Doctors told him over the past 20 years he'd never have to worry about heart problems because his cholesterol numbers were good so he's been in denial that this really is serious. I want to keep him around a long time and I also want him to have good quality of life. I know that's what you want for your father also.

I'll be ordering Dr. Esselstyn's book very soon and will show him the pictures you spoke of. Thanks again for your post! :-D

Shirley
grangran7
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 5:10 pm
Location: East Central Illinois

Postby Mrs. Doodlepunk » Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:11 pm

Shirley, up until the past year, my father was in his late 80's and hauling, splitting and stacking his own firewood, heating the house with it from a basement wood stove, and plowing his own snow. He has always been very physically strong even though he's a small guy. He moves slow but always did more work than anybody. If he had changed his diet 20 years ago at the stage your husband is now, my father would still be a dynamo. Instead he is now age 88 and essentially a cardiac cripple. He is on oxygen and his high points in the day are watching the bluebirds from his window and having success on the toilet.

I hope you can get your husband to listen up. Have you read SactoBob and f1jim's stories? Bob was in the most recent newsletter. They have both avoided interventional cardiology for the most part.

The thing in Dr. Esselstyn's book that to me just hit me between the eyes was when he tells about talking to a cardiologist friend, and asked him why don't cardiologists teach their patients about plant based nutrition, since it works 100 percent of the time to reverse atherosclerosis. The cardiologist replied that his "billable hours" for the past year were over 5 million dollars. Five million dollars, one doctor! And to think that something as simple and CHEAP as eating a plant based diet can avoid stuff like that.
It IS the food! :unibrow:
(... do these earrings make my butt look big?)
User avatar
Mrs. Doodlepunk
 
Posts: 3731
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:10 pm

Mrs. Doodlepunk

Postby grangran7 » Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:05 pm

Thanks for you latest response! I hear you loud and clear. My husband has been a hard working farmer all his life so is still very active and strong. He recently stopped our hog and cattle business because the markets around here close have all nearly closed. I hate to even admit that we raised those animals to sell for 50 years. We were doing what we had done while growing up. He still farms our little place, works on our machinery himself, works in the garden, mows the yard and lots and helps me too. If he's in the house very long, he has to get out and walk if nothing else needs done. He spend his winters with a chain saw in his hands cleaning up hedge and fence rows and helping a neighbor keep his wood pile supplied so it has time to dry before using.

I have read Bob and f1jim's stories with much interest and have shared them with my husband. I ordered Dr. Esselstyn's book just before getting back on here so should have it to read and share by the middle of next week.

Your report of the cardiologist telling about his "billable hours" just makes me sick. Something so simple and cheap as eating a plant based diet and they won't share that with their patients. No wonder the Esselstyn's and McDougall's have met with so many obstacles to their studies and work! So much pain and suffering could be avoided both for the patients and their families not to mention money. With all those doctors get paid the patients deserve the truth but doubt it will come from 99% of the doctors out there.

Well, so much for my soap box! Thanks again for your response. I can tell that you're a true believer in this way of eating and I'm growing more and more adamant about it for myself every day. You've been an encouragement to me and I thank you for that. I'm looking forward to hearing from you again and am looking forward to receiving Dr. Esselstyn's book to study.

Shirley
grangran7
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 5:10 pm
Location: East Central Illinois

the AHA diet

Postby ncyg46 » Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:30 pm

one of the guys here just had a triple bypass and a hole in his heart fixed. He is still in the hospital and I was sitting and talking with two friends last nite. They said they were sending him home with the American Heart Attack Diet alias AHA and I commented that it wouldn't work. I get frustrated because they just replied that the hospital is giving him a class and knows what it is doing...sigh :( I said that if I followed that I wouldn't be here now...and it has been 15 years since mine! I actually got nervous and did a cholesterol check with my home kit and it had gone up a few months ago with cheats to 187 and this morning was back to 167. still working on that and being good. I did the pantry again today and tossed alot of things :D
User avatar
ncyg46
 
Posts: 5471
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:38 pm
Location: Arizona, Florida

Postby Rob » Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:16 pm

Does anyone know anything about the effect of the McDougall diet on someone who has drug eluting stents? I had heard of some research that people with this kind of stent must take statins for the rest of their lives - that taking them off the drugs was quite dangerous. I have a relative with this type of stent and wonder whether the McDougall diet would allow this person to safely get off of all the medication he is taking.
Last edited by Rob on Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Rob
 
Posts: 1505
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:03 pm

Stents and anti-clotting drugs...

Postby f1jim » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:00 pm

It was always standard procedure if you had a stent of any kind (bare metal or DES) to keep you on Plavix(clopidogrel) for at least 12-18 months. Recently researchers have found that restenosis after removing the Plavix has been greater than first thought. They have been extending the time patients are kept on this drug longer and longer. My mom has been taking it for 4 years now after triple bypass and 4 stents. This is worrisome because any emergency surgery that might be necessary carries with it the risk of bleeding to death on the operating table. Same is true of an auto accident, major fall, any incident that might include bleeding carries this risk. It's like being a hemophiliac.
I believe the mechanism that clogs arteries is responsible for clogging stents so the diet that reverses the inflammation and buildup of cholesterol should serve well to limit further damage going down the road. I would NOT suggest cutting out the plavix in that first year to 18 months following the procedure. A good reading of the Ornish and Esselstyn studies show many of their patients had previous procedures done. In fact, as I recall, most of them did.
f1jim
User avatar
f1jim
 
Posts: 11295
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:45 pm
Location: Pacifica, CA

Next

Return to The Lounge

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest



Welcome!

Sign up to receive our regular articles, recipes, and news about upcoming events.