Disturbing McDougaller's Story

[sksamboots]

While I'm glad you found something that worked for you. I don't think it's fair just to say because it happened to you, that it will happen to everyone else. Have a good one

[janluvs2heel]

I agree with Boots. And Dr. McDougall does advise that if you follow this diet for longer than 2 years, to take a vitamin B-12 supplement. Isn't that right?

If you feel better eating the diet you are now, then that is what you should do. As far as potatoes, havent' they been around for like 13000 years or something like that?

I think what you have shown is that you should not totally ignore your health, just because you are eating what you consider to be the optimum diet.

To each his own.

Jan

[ETeSelle]

You're asking someone here to post this on the Amazon site?!?!? Why in the world would we do that??

[f1jim]

I have removed the original post after much looking back at the posters history. This recent post is completely at odds with the previous post in regards to the past medical history. It didn't jive with the former posts except for the defense of the critique of Campbells work. It does seem that the post is the work of a shill. Not only didn't it make sense it clearly flies in the face of what we see here of those adopting this diet. Something seems rotten here!
f1jim

[afreespirit]

I read the removed post and can only say that for every tale of doom and woe on McDougall, there are hundreds if not thousands of shining success stories. Adding to the lack of credibility is that the OP had only a small number of posts to his/her name...<shrug>

[vgnwitch]

I really don't understand why people do this stuff. I post at the forum of a very well-known omni cookbook writer. All the talk is food-related, and despite the fact that I eat quite differently than most of the folks there, I still find lots to chat about without pushing my views of diet and health.

[Ege Bamyasi]

You want "reassurances"?

http://www.drmcdougall.com/stars/index.html

There you go.

[f1jim]

I have once again removed the post and PM'd her looking for more info. It still smells to me and I am not convinced it's legitimate. No explanation, just a post of someone elses post with no explanation?
I'm waiting for a response before removing the account. I will tolerate honest discussion of any issues but let's be real. That wasn't a discussion.
f1jim

[SactoBob]

Thanks, Jim, for doing such a great job as moderator. I also recoiled at this third hand anonymous claim of failure on the McDougall Plan.

A fair number of people claim to fail on this plan - in fact, it was one of my questions to Jeff at lunch yesterday. Are there people that will fail to get good results on this plan?

His answer was no. He believes in every case that such claims come from people either misunderstand the plan, are not applying the plan properly to their own situation, or are knowingly or unknowingly failing to follow the plan.

The plan always gets good results. I asked what could you say to people who claim that the program does not work for them. We were near a swimming pool. He asked, what do you say to a person who says they just fell in the swimming pool, but they did not get wet? Good question.

I am sure that this anonymous person did not execute the plan properly - otherwise, they would have achieved excellent results.

[Daffodil]

This plan works perfectly except for people that don't follow it exactly. Although I missed the original post that everyone is referring to, I can only imagine what it consisted of.
I go to many forums, and there are always trolls looking to start trouble. This person is just another troublemaker looking for an audience.

[f1jim]

Well, it was certainly suspicious. The poster posts like it was from her but it ends up being a letter copied from another online forum. Made to look like it was from her but it wasn't. Then we are told she only wanted discussion and comment on it. But no questions or comments herself. And the PM I received from her was downright hostile for questioning her "technique." It seemed she was really wanting a fight and either not a person following the plan or not interested in it herself. Our job here isn't to shut down discussion but to further it. We can discuss the situation she described from any angle. In fact, if someone is experiencing problems we have a responsibility to help turn it around. I honestly, though, have never heard of someone following the plan thoroughly and experiencing the failure described in the letter. There are many here ready and willing to help with issues. It's the reason for the entire forum. So let's not play games, let's discuss.
f1jim

[f1jim]

I don't think you guys are saying anything conflicting. Yes, some fine tuning of the program is necessary in some unusual cases. These are a lot of what we see on the forum and why people are here many times.
This is the place to get some things ironed out and fine tuned but it's not like that affects a large percentage of the greater McDougalling pool. The vast majority of people can thrive quite nicely on the standard plan. The vast majority DON"T have allergic, reactive, unusual effects on this plan. When they do we hear about them here as they try to focus on the problem. When you have a large body of humans almost anything is a possibility. We see thyroid issues, gluten issues, all sorts of sensitivity issues that are not true for the larger group of McDougallers. What Jeff said was not in conflict with what SactoBob is saying. Just a bit of tweaking the diet doesn't mean the diet can or doesn't work for someone. Come to one of the Advanced Study Weekends and you will see a large number of folks just humming along on the regular program trouble free. The exception is the person with some unusual issue. Definitely not the norm. Many of these people don't even know about the forum.
f1jim

[SactoBob]

Thanks, Jim, and I agree.
I just reviewed this thread where Carroll and Jeff tried to resolve the same issue. viewtopic.php?f=22&t=14185
I think that Jeff explained it very well, but I still think that Carroll either does not understand or will not accept what he is saying.

Jeff is not saying that everybody will get results even with 100% adherence to the regular plan. In fact, the regular plan would not likely be recommended for somebody who is not already where they need and want to be. And it certainly would not be recommended if results were not being obtained.

In the anonymous case you deleted above, the person claimed to get heart disease while eating some kind of a mostly vegan diet. We really don't know anything about what kind of diet he was following or what his adherence was, since it was an anonymous post based up a couple levels of hearsay. I am confident he was not eating the diet that would be recommended for somebody with risk factors for heart disease. The diet recommended for heart disease reverses rather than encourages heart disease. That is well proven to me.

What I hear Jeff saying is that the plan, properly applied, always gets good results. And one of the reasons for failure is that people don't understand the plan. Some people think that they are on plan even if they have serious health or weight problems by simply eating freely from the approved list of foods. That is a misunderstanding of the plan, and they will likely fail like I did once. Jeff has said many times that the single biggest problem is people taking dietary advice here recommended for somebody else, and assuming that it applies to them.

What I consider to be the definition of the McDougall Plan is a diet that is based upon Dr. McDougall's general principles, as outlined in his books, and specifically adapted to the needs of the individual. For anybody with a serious health problem, that will likely be some form of the MWL plan.

[Katydid]

I agree with SanctoBob. Any alterations I have made in the plan (I do a gluten-free version of MWL) were due to issues in my genetics, not the plan. Russet potatoes don't agree with me. Yukon golds do. Should no one eat russet potatoes because I have weird blood sugar? Gluten upsets my allergies so I don't eat it. It's me, not the plan. I've made the changes necessary to stay on program, lose excess weight and regain my health. But those changes are not SanctoBob's changes. Nor should they be.
Kate

[evangelin]

I chuckled when I read Debbie's post above mentioning Grapenuts. Several years ago, I had an excessive eating encounter with a box of Grapenuts. I remember it well because of the alarming impact it had on my intestines! I won't EVER do that again. I also believe , if it became a habit and you lived through it, your teeth would be worn down to nubbins...Very crunchy. Grapenuts are a no-no for me. The MWL doesn't triggermyinsanity button . I still eat an awful lot but I do get full and stop so food isn't an all day affair anymore.
Ev