The word "vegan"

For those questions and discussions on the McDougall program that don’t seem to fit in any other forum.

Moderators: JeffN, f1jim, John McDougall, carolve, Heather McDougall

Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Salley » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:29 pm

I'm not a fan of PETA either, I must admit. And no, ultimately it doesn't really matter what you call yourself of course, I just find it weird how people here seem to be just so strongly opposed to the term vegan.... I have visions of people going into hysterics at a social food gathering when the waiter comes over with a plate and says, "here's your vegan meal"... "NO! It's NOT vegan, it isn't, it's low fat whole foods starch based plant food, how DARE you call it vegan!!!"... and then maybe drizzling some honey over it with a leather gloved hand just to really drive the point home.
Salley
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:59 am

Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Brakerman » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:58 pm

Salley wrote:but it sure is a lot easier to say vegan and then go into the finer points... that's actually how I came to ever hear the term myself was in trying to order foods for myself people would respond with something along the lines of "oh, you're vegan, okay I get it now..."


I would have to agree, its easier to tell someone I am on a vegan diet than to explain everything at once. With most people whom I have mentioned a "vegan diet" do not seem to associate that with the "vegan lifestyle".
Brakerman
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:36 pm

Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Norm » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:29 am

Salley wrote:
Norm wrote: I see being a vegan in my future, but I still wont describe my diet as vegan simply because it doesn't adequately describe my diet.


So if someone asks if you have any special dietary requests or needs you won't say vegan? I mean this all just seems so silly and overboard to me to go to such lengths not to use a term that is so helpful in getting us 95% of the way easily in so many social situations... sure, it's not completely adequate and in most cases more information will be needed, but it sure is a lot easier to say vegan and then go into the finer points... that's actually how I came to ever hear the term myself was in trying to order foods for myself people would respond with something along the lines of "oh, you're vegan, okay I get it now..." and after enough times hearing that or having it written down on my chart somewhere, I was more than happy to have discovered such a simple way to explain so much! (although I do admit it's frustrating that 'vegetarian' isn't enough since so many seem to think the term automatically includes ovo-lacto and sometimes even fish and fowl).


Silly? People have all sorts of preconceived ideas about vegetarian and vegan diets, so much so that even the word "vegan" will be misunderstood and confused. Why would I add to that confusion by calling my diet a vegan diet and then trying to explain how it differs from a vegan diet? What I tell people when they ask about any special dietary requests depends on the contexts.. if they're asking so they can prepare a meal for me I make it extremely simple and ask for 2 or 3 baked potatoes with nothing added to them and tell them I'll provide the rest. If they ask out of curiosity and there is time to talk about it I tell them I eat a whole-foods starch-centered plant-based diet, then explain what that means when they invariably ask "huh??". If there isn't time for that I simply say I am a low-fat vegetarian, eat no processed foods and add no oils or fats of any kind to my diet.
I can quickly and easily explain my diet without adding in the confusion of terms that they may or may not understand or that would only add confusion.

-Norm
Norm
 

Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Salley » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:45 am

Norm wrote: Why would I add to that confusion by calling my diet a vegan diet and then trying to explain how it differs from a vegan diet?


Because it in no way differs from a vegan diet so no explanation there is necessary... your potatoes are a perfect example, I have many times needed to specify that those baked potatoes be *vegan* because for many people a plain baked potato still includes butter, for better or worse adding in 'vegan' gets taken much more seriously (not to say it's always a guarantee of course but it really ups the odds in our favor).
Salley
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:59 am

Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Norm » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:03 am

Salley wrote:
Norm wrote: Why would I add to that confusion by calling my diet a vegan diet and then trying to explain how it differs from a vegan diet?


Because it in no way differs from a vegan diet so no explanation there is necessary... your potatoes are a perfect example, I have many times needed to specify that those baked potatoes be *vegan* because for many people a plain baked potato still includes butter, for better or worse adding in 'vegan' gets taken much more seriously (not to say it's always a guarantee of course but it really ups the odds in our favor).


My diet sure does differ from a vegan diet... I have paleo friends who could accommodate my diet easier than some vegans I know. Some people simply can't do "no added fat" to save their lives.

Why all this insistence on sticking the vegan label on this diet? And how can a baked potato with nothing on it not be simpler and clearer than a "vegan baked potato"??? Not everyone is going to understand what the "vegan" means but most people know what "DON'T PUT ANYTHING ON IT" means!

-Norm
Norm
 

Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Conz » Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:20 am

This diet is not vegan, and no one should call themselves one if they are not. People will see the non vegan things you do, and it makes it harder for the people that actually are vegan. I don't want to be given something with honey in it, because another so called vegan eats it, or have to listen to some twit go on about thier "vegan" friend who doesnt bother avoiding leather and so on.
Conz
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:27 pm

Re: The word "vegan"

Postby eaufraiche703 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:12 am

strokes & folks...

i've found it's just easier to say i'm a vegetarian and add that i don't use dairy either, if that comes up, but most times it doesn't need to. most people don't really care all that much.

but they certainly do worry about our protein and calcium, don't they, if we say we're vegan?

:lol:
what would Scooby do?
eaufraiche703
 
Posts: 1300
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 8:33 am
Location: St Louis, MO

Re: The word "vegan"

Postby veggylvr » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:09 am

Good point about the honey... I know so many vegans that use honey it's not something I even think about, but there are also plenty that do not use honey and in order to be labelled vegan a food item can't include it.


To me, honey is just a bodily fluid released by the bee. So, not to be crude, but isn't it somewhat similar to semen?

To be a true vegan, you'd have to stop having oral sex! :)

I think the term "vegan" is the closest we have to a label. No one wants to hear all the minute differences. You don't say, "I'm Catholic, except I use birth control...and I live with my boyfriend...and sometimes I swear..." If you were raised Catholic and that's the closest alignment to your spiritual beliefs, notwithstanding an exception or two, it's perfectly ok to use that term. Labels are really for other people...to help give them some framework and understanding of you. In our case, "vegan" is the simplest, quickest term to use to let people know we don't eat meat or dairy.
User avatar
veggylvr
 
Posts: 923
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:56 pm
Location: Florida

Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Theodore » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:46 am

Salley

Maybe it'll help you to think of it this way: all vegan food is vegetarian. So why don't vegans just call themselves vegetarian ?
Last edited by Theodore on Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Never eat anything that has an ass.
Theodore
 
Posts: 427
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:25 pm

Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Jordy Verrill » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:50 am

I don't use the word vegan to describe the way I eat because

1: I'm not a vegan. I wear a leather belt, keep money in a leather wallet, and wear leather shoes. While I don't hate animals, I have zero interest in animal rights and will continue to have zero interest in it until every problem facing human beings is solved. I also eat honey. I will also, on special occasions (birthday, Christmas) eat a piece of cake made with eggs and/or dairy ice cream.

2: The word vegan is very politicized and people have very strong reactions to the word. If the movie "Forks Over Knives" (which is what lead me to this way of eating) had had the word "Vegan" anywhere in the title or description I would never have watched it.

Vegans tend to be militant about their lifestyle, having a feeling of superiority over non-vegans. They also have the tendency to tell everyone they are a vegan, whether the person the person they are telling this to asked about it or not. I do not want to be associated with people like that in any way.
Jordy Verrill
 

Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Theodore » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:02 am

.
Last edited by Theodore on Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Never eat anything that has an ass.
Theodore
 
Posts: 427
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:25 pm

Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Theodore » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:15 am

Oops double post.
Last edited by Theodore on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Never eat anything that has an ass.
Theodore
 
Posts: 427
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:25 pm

Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Jordy Verrill » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:19 am

I don't label the way I eat.
Jordy Verrill
 

Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Wild4Stars » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:40 am

I'm a McDougaller. I long ago quit trying to explain to anyone how I eat. I've never expected others to explain to me how they eat or why they don't eat tomatoes, onions, mushrooms --- whatever. If other's feel the need to label my eating they can call it the "Vikki Diet."
"If your lifestyle doesn't control your body, your body will eventually control your lifestyle." Ern Baxter
User avatar
Wild4Stars
 
Posts: 1227
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:05 pm
Location: Central Florida

Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Debbie » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:34 am

Salley wrote:So if someone asks if you have any special dietary requests or needs you won't say vegan?


No, I would not say just vegan for the reasons I've already stated and the reason stated below.

Salley wrote:but it sure is a lot easier to say vegan and then go into the finer points...


And most often it is not easier to say vegan then go into finer points. Why? Because most mainstream people hear the word vegan and shut down. They want to hear nothing else. I have experienced that more times than not. But if I just say starch based, I have a better chance of explaining the finer points. They are more curious about starch based than vegan. Theyve all heard about the "crazy vegans" who throw fake blood at people. Or paint their bodies and make signs. THAT is what they know about vegans. They dont want to hear it from me.

*Editing to add,
if calling your diet vegan works for you, then who am I to say. I think generally its probably not a great idea because so many people stop listening or get the wrong impression.


veggylvr wrote:To me, honey is just a bodily fluid released by the bee. So, not to be crude, but isn't it somewhat similar to semen?


Actually that is not quite true. The bees collect nectar from the flowers of plants. That nectar is put in a special pouch, or honey tummy. They then regurgitate the nectar into the combs of the hive. This nectar is thin and watery. As the comb is filled, the heat from the bees and the wind generated from their wings dehydrates the nectar turning into the thick liquid we call honey. It is not semen, semen contains the material to create new life, it is not bee poop (as my husband so affectionately calls it). If anything it could be called bee vomit, but then even that is not right since it doesnt contain any actual stomach contents where their nourishment is.

It is sort of similar to maple in that the liquid is collected from trees then cooked down to dehydrate the liquid into a thicker form into what we know as maple syrup. The problem vegans have with honey, I believe is that the honey would feed the hive in lean months when flowers arent abundant and its too cold for the bees to fly. Thus harm being brought to the bees.
Last edited by Debbie on Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
"It's the food" It's always been the food.
User avatar
Debbie
 
Posts: 2257
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:09 pm

PreviousNext

Return to The Lounge

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests



Welcome!

Sign up to receive our regular articles, recipes, and news about upcoming events.