The word "vegan"

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Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Debbie » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:35 am

Wild4Stars wrote:I'm a McDougaller. If other's feel the need to label my eating they can call it the "Vikki Diet."

That is awesome!! :cool:
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Re: The word "vegan"

Postby sharonbikes » Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:52 am

I don't label my eating either. I am not a vegan for reasons others have suggested. I just eat real food - nothing special. If people ask me about "what diet" I am on -I tell them I just eat real food and avoid fats other than those naturally occurring in plants. It is better to focus on what I do eat rather than what I do not eat. I find people are more receptive to talk further about the great food I do eat and not the food I don't eat.

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Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Debbie » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:48 pm

sharonbikes wrote:I don't label my eating either. I am not a vegan for reasons others have suggested. I just eat real food - nothing special. If people ask me about "what diet" I am on -I tell them I just eat real food and avoid fats other than those naturally occurring in plants. It is better to focus on what I do eat rather than what I do not eat. I find people are more receptive to talk further about the great food I do eat and not the food I don't eat.

Sharon

That is what Ive been stressing on my FB page, real food. Just real food. I am getting to the point where Im not as inclined to think of animal based foods as real food, but Im not there and may never fully get there. Some of the people following my page are low carbers, paleo and ones doing those shake things, like visalus. Since what low carbers are eating is considered real food by the masses, Im targeting the fake shakes, although I havent actually called them out, Im just stressing REAL food at this point; as I get further along I'll tackle them....maybe ;-) . In one of visalus's ads they tout how great just one shake is cause it contains some nutrient in apples that youd have to eat like 50 apples to get, and thats only 1 shake. Um theres a reason why eating 50 apples is hard, we dont need that much of any nutrient in one sitting. :duh:
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Re: The word "vegan"

Postby ladder_addict » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:56 pm

brec wrote:I had thought that "vegan" meant simply a person who ate no animal products. But it actually means more than that: per the American Heritage 4th Ed.: "A vegetarian who eats plant products only, especially one who uses no products derived from animals, as fur or leather. [emphasis added]"

I think that must be an old edition. My dictionary defines a vegan as "someone who subsists on white flour, oil, and oreos, and believes that the health benefits of their diet are being exaggerated".
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Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Salley » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:01 pm

Norm wrote: My diet sure does differ from a vegan diet... I have paleo friends who could accommodate my diet easier than some vegans I know.


I really have a hard time believing this to be true... sure, the concept of whole foods is more along the lines of eating this way theoretically, however in practice the reality of the food options I have found I am way more likely to find sustenance from the vegan options than the paleo (where you won't find all the grains, potatoes, beans and other starches that form the basis of this way of eating). This way of eating does not differ from a vegan diet, it's just that a vegan diet can differ from this way of eating. I'm not trying to insist you have to call your way of eating vegan, I'm just saying there is no reason to be so afraid of the term and stuff like this
Jordy Verrill wrote:Vegans tend to be militant about their lifestyle, having a feeling of superiority over non-vegans. They also have the tendency to tell everyone they are a vegan, whether the person the person they are telling this to asked about it or not. I do not want to be associated with people like that in any way.
couldn't be further from the truth, however using something like that as the sole excuse for not using the term just continues irrational prejudice and intolerance

Theodore wrote:Salley

Maybe it'll help you to think of it this way: all vegan food is vegetarian. So why don't vegans just call themselves vegetarian ?


Agreed, absolutely (if your point is 'all mcdougall food is vegan. So why don't McDougallers just call themselves vegan?' )... I'm just saying no reason to specifically avoid the term, not that it must be used. I use vegetarian all the time even though there's more to the story, just as others do, and used to use it exclusively before so many of the exchanges I mentioned earlier.... on the off chance that wasn't what you meant and were actually suggesting just using the term vegetarian then I will say because that's the agreed upon standard so it simplifies things just to go along with it (I even tried 'strict vegetarian' for awhile, but more people understand the term vegan especially now that it's such a familiar label at the grocery store).

I don't consider the argument that just because you don't always eat a vegan diet should necessitate not saying you eat a vegan diet... by that argument there are a lot of people calling themselves "McDougallers" that really shouldn't.

Debbie wrote:And most often it is not easier to say vegan then go into finer points. Why? Because most mainstream people hear the word vegan and shut down. They want to hear nothing else. I have experienced that more times than not. But if I just say starch based, I have a better chance of explaining the finer points. They are more curious about starch based than vegan. Theyve all heard about the "crazy vegans" who throw fake blood at people. Or paint their bodies and make signs. THAT is what they know about vegans. They dont want to hear it from me.


I've found people just shut down at the idea of giving up meat or dairy, not the fact that there are 'crazy vegans' out there... usually I'm the person they are talking to so it's pretty obvious 'crazy' doesn't apply.... if anything it becomes more approachable having that example of a 'normal' (boring even perhaps) person eating a vegan diet... no matter how I might try to argue it's not vegan ('you can still have your turkey on thanksgiving or honey in your tea') people are usually pretty savvy at realizing that it excludes meat, dairy, eggs, fish... etc... i.e. vegan, but I have to admit I don't really try to sway anyone to this way of eating or discuss my diet very often unless asked about it specifically so it really doesn't come up for me except for my own benefit (like my neighbor offering to bring me a meal) and in those instances even if I don't say it they will so no sense in going out of my way to avoid it.
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Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Jordy Verrill » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:39 pm

Salley wrote:
Jordy Verrill wrote:Vegans tend to be militant about their lifestyle, having a feeling of superiority over non-vegans. They also have the tendency to tell everyone they are a vegan, whether the person the person they are telling this to asked about it or not. I do not want to be associated with people like that in any way.
couldn't be further from the truth, however using something like that as the sole excuse for not using the term just continues irrational prejudice and intolerance



It is absolutely the truth in nearly every instance that I've ever encountered a vegan. And since that was point 2 in my 2 point reasoning as to why I'm not a vegan, it's blatantly clear that it is not my sole "excuse" (reason) for not labeling myself as such. Labels are for people who have outward agendas. I have no agenda other than the personal agenda to make myself healthier with the food that I eat.
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Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Salley » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:20 pm

Jordy Verrill wrote:It is absolutely the truth in nearly every instance that I've ever encountered a vegan. And since that was point 2 in my 2 point reasoning as to why I'm not a vegan, it's blatantly clear that it is not my sole "excuse" (reason) for not labeling myself as such.


Well I'm sorry you have had such negative experience... however I doubt that is truly the case, I'm sure you've encountered vegans that don't fit your stereotype they just aren't as vocal, I'm sure having such prejudice can color one's perception as well. I had actually thought I should leave off the 'sole' but was hoping by having that in there it would be clearer ("blatantly" so) I wasn't referring to you or anyone that has other reasons for choosing not to use the term vegan but very specifically referring to a situation in which that actually was the sole reason.

Jordy Verrill wrote:Labels are for people who have outward agendas. I have no agenda other than the personal agenda to make myself healthier with the food that I eat.


I'm pretty sure foods aren't labelled 'vegan' for any agenda... I label myself as 'married' not for the purposes of any agenda, it just makes some social situations a little easier to navigate, that's all.

Phooey, I really liked what someone said about how whatever we label ourselves people will still think we are freaks for not eating meat, but I don't see that post now?... I feel like people want all the benefits of eating a healthy vegan diet while trying to avoid all the negative social implications so they think they can just say, oh, it's only that a vegan diet is associated with vegans that makes it 'freaky' not the fact that it's really the diet that makes us the odd man out, but that's just fooling ourselves (not to mention inflammatory).
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Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Theodore » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:30 pm

.
Last edited by Theodore on Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Salley » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:43 pm

Theodore wrote: This is because the difference between what is allowed on the McDougall diet and what is allowed on a vegan diet is just as stark as the difference between a vegan diet and a vegetarian diet. ... That's the point I was trying to make.


Right, that is the point I thought you were making with your comment with which I agreed... but I would never try to argue or insist my diet isn't vegetarian, especially not by way of insisting what a better quality person I am than most vegetarians.

(eta, even though I am! :unibrow: just kidding... the vegs I've met over my life time have all been way too different for me to make any generalizations, not unlike the grand mix we have here)
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Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Theodore » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:11 pm

Salley wrote:
Theodore wrote: This is because the difference between what is allowed on the McDougall diet and what is allowed on a vegan diet is just as stark as the difference between a vegan diet and a vegetarian diet. ... That's the point I was trying to make.

Right, that is the point I thought you were making with your comment with which I agreed... but I would never try to argue or insist my diet isn't vegetarian, especially not by way of insisting what a better quality person I am than most vegetarians.

I think most McDougallers would "put their hands up" to their diet being a particular type of vegan diet, just as you'd describe your diet as being a particular type of vegetarian diet. But that's a different issue, and there are some McDougallers who wouldn't even describe their diet as a type of vegan diet (eg. due to their permitted honey consumption).

As for your latter comment, I haven't seen any McDougallers inferring that they're a better quality person than a vegan, but I'll certainly keep an eye out for it. Just as I hope you'll keep an eye out for any vegans claiming leather-based superiority over McDougallers, or insinuating that the wholefood plant-based crowd are destroying veganism.
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Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Theodore » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:20 pm

P.S. (Salley) - I feel like we've met before. Do you recall us meeting before ?
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Re: The word "vegan"

Postby dstewart » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:20 pm

JohnLarson wrote:"Vegan" seems to be a curse word.

Something I've noticed a lot lately: On TV, in most shows, "vegan" is used as a curse word, as a shorthand way of saying that someone is a freak, as shorthand description of food as tasteless and pointless, and in general as a term of abuse or ridicule.

"I got stuck making chicken and rice with a vegan. Do you know what vegan chicken and rice is? Rice!." -- The Big Bang Theory

You know what though? When people I talk to hear vegan, besides all the negatives--"eats nothing but tofu," "doesn't eat anything," "can't eat real food [that is, animals]"--what people think is, "Health nut--only eats food that's good for him, not food that's tasty, fun or enjoyable." (Yeah, I know. Contradiction between "doesn't eat anything" and "eats food that's good for him." People don't care that they don't make sense about it.) Heck, I get that from my wife.

Since they do think, "only eats food that's good for him," I don't worry much that there are plenty of vegans eating diets that are loaded with fat and in fact only a little healthier than SAD omnivores (most vegans, apparently, judging from vegan cookbooks--"1 cup virgin coconut oil"). Non-vegans don't think that vegan diets are unhealthy except in ridiculous ways like "dude, where do you get your protein?" and "dude, where do you get your calcium?" and "dude, where do you get your cheese?"

So to me, the word vegan is just fine as a description. It's fast, they know I'm not eating animals or drinking milk, and they think I'm some kind of health nut. Close enough. Do I really want to have to go into it all every time?
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Re: The word "vegan"

Postby Halpin13 » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:31 pm

Debbie wrote:
Wild4Stars wrote:I'm a McDougaller. If other's feel the need to label my eating they can call it the "Vikki Diet."

That is awesome!! :cool:


I have no problem saying that I follow a McDougall vegan lifestyle. I feel a sense of pride in making that statement. To my surprise a friend started eating this way last week. He has already lost 4# and said that his cloths already feel better.
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Re: The word "vegan"

Postby rickfm » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:35 pm

dstewart wrote:Something I've noticed a lot lately: On TV...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m0VnzPFxew
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Re: The word "vegan"

Postby dstewart » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:45 pm

rickfm wrote:
dstewart wrote:Something I've noticed a lot lately: On TV...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m0VnzPFxew

Yeah, thanks, rickfm, I had noted that one too.
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