Moderators: JeffN, f1jim, carolve, Heather McDougall
I do this too, carwex. Rich foods go in opaque containers set behind other objects, compliant foods in clear containers readily visible. To a large extent, this is habit for me now. I had just never solved the issue WRT bread.carwex wrote:Re: the discussion about clearing the countertops of all food except fruit. I agree that helps and I have found that I had to go one step further: I realized that any food that is placed at eye level in a cupboard or a fridge eventually presents a real problem for me. So I put the peanut butter and tahini at the back of the shelf where it doesn't attract my eye every time I open the cupboard. Same with bread and nuts. Visual cues set my brain up for a slip.
Carol
This is really important; it is one of the key things we can do to really support success, in my opinion.Better planning for unexpected food availability issues
Good for you! Also important. Keep moving toward greater adherence, aiming for steady, attainable progress from day to day and week to week.I am being kind and forgiving to myself for any time I am not perfect, because it is about learning how to live a healthier life over anything else.
Carry on with the awesome momentum you established this week!JeffN wrote:Eliminate all higher fat plant foods (i.e., nuts, seeds, avocados, tofu, soy).
Growing a Pear wrote:So the 50:50 plate and exercise will be my focus this week.
As Jeff lays out so clearly in The Myth of Moderation Pt 3: Is Your Diet Exceptional?, certain choices that we might think make little difference can have an outsized effect in contributing to the quality of our overall dietary pattern.JeffN wrote:Minimizing/Rationalizing the effect of certain behaviors and/or personal preferences, **especially in regard to certain foods**.
I think for many of us, taking an "either or not" approach to the checklist assessment can really help to bring appropriate attention to "exceptions" and put us on the path toward eliminating them.JeffN wrote:So, let's look at the impact of few items that are often considered as exceptions and what would happen if you added in just a few of these.
- A tbsp of oil is ~120 calories
- A tbsp of sugar is ~50 calories
- An ounce of chocolate is ~150 calories
- A 5 oz glass of wine is ~120 calories
- A serving of a refined grain is ~80-100 calories
- A small piece of vegan pie, cake or a cookie can easily be 100-150 calories (or more).
The total of the above is over 620-690 calories which would be over 1/3 of an 1800 calorie diet, over 1/4 of a 2400 calorie diet. And that is for just one serving of each. If you have 2 servings of each, you are around 1300 calories which is over 2/3's of an 1800 calorie diet and over 1/2 of a 2400 calorie diet.
As you can see, it is very easy for these exceptions to add up. And, if you add in a few more of these "exceptions," the exceptions have become the rule, and the healthy foods have become the exception and while you may have an exceptional diet, it is not healthy.
I wrote something similar over a year ago.JeffN wrote:The MWL guidelines are guidelines, not black and white rules and are based on the principles of calorie density, satiety, fiber/kcal, food form, chewing, etc. etc. The more you do, the more you can benefit.
Starting meals with a soup, salad and/or fruit, helps to lower the overall calorie density of the meal and increase the overall satiety. This helps to decrease the overall caloric intake without giving up any weight or volume of food, which usually increase. Hence the saying, eat more, weigh less. Eat more food in volume/weight while eating less calories. Some will start with huge salads and/or soups, some will have small ones. Some have both, some have none. It is a guideline but all based on the science of pre-loading. Fruit is included because it works better for breakfast for many. However, many people like “savory” breakfast and have oatmeal with vegetables.
While using these as a pre-load work, they also work as part of the meal (50/50 plate) which is based on the science of dilution.Some may end up needing to do both to hit their goals, same may need to do one or the other.
Fruit for dessert is also a guideline not a rule. Dessert is not served everyday at the 10-Day, and when it is, it is fruit. The limit of 2 servings of fruit is based on Dr McDougall’s personal experience and, like the limit on beans, is just a weekly average. His main concern with fruit in regard to weight is that he says he sees participants “binging” on fruit.
For the record, there is also unlimited fruit (and unlimited McDougal bean soups) served at the 10-Day program in the snack room for the participants to choose from.
That viewpoint may seem to directly contradict what I just wrote about the checklist above, but considered in perspective I think the two concepts are actually complementary. The guidelines, taken in a binary, pass/fail fashion, serve to direct the focus of our efforts, especially when we're struggling to achieve the results we seek. They aren't black and white requirements, but they tell us exactly the things we have the opportunity to do for improving our results. Some of us, to get where we want to be, will need to be more attentive than others - as Jeff points outMark Cooper wrote:When making use of the MWL 10-Point Checklist, please keep in mind that the 10 points are guidelines that highlight areas on which to focus when you are struggling, or not seeing the results you would like. They are not absolute commandments. One example - you aren’t obligated to begin every meal with a salad, but if you find that you are having problems maintaining satiety, starting a meal with salad or soup can be very helpful. The same reasoning holds true for dessert; you don’t have to eat dessert if you are not hungry, but if you do want dessert - choose fruit. Also note that the Checklist recommends limiting added salt and sugar, but this is not a salt-free or sugar-free program. We recommend food be prepared without added salt or sugar, but it is acceptable to sprinkle a modest amount of salt or sugar on the surface of your food at the table. At the same time, if salt or sugar are a problem for you, it is perfectly acceptable to eliminate them completely (but is not required). Please remember that ultimately we are trying to establish healthy habits that can be maintained over the long term.
Take a look at how you are doing and the results you're seeing, perform an honest and thorough appraisal of the guidelines and make the recommended adjustments as needed.JeffN wrote:Some will start with huge salads and/or soups, some will have small ones. Some have both, some have none . . . While using these as a pre-load work, they also work as part of the meal (50/50 plate) which is based on the science of dilution. Some may end up needing to do both to hit their goals, some may need to do one or the other.
Mark Cooper wrote:
With this week's remarks, I want to encourage you to consider adopting a perspective toward the MWL 10-Point Checklist that I think has significant potential value in supporting your progress: consider each point on the list as a binary, either or proposition; either you ate higher fat foods, or you didn't, you drank your calories or you didn't, &c. That isn't to say that you should expect yourself to be perfect (nor do we expect that). Making these changes in behavior is extremely challenging, so treat yourself with compassion when your efforts fall short. But, be thorough in your assessments and try to make an honest self-appraisal of whether you are adhering to or deviating from a given point. It can, I think, be very difficult to have an accurate idea of what "80%" omitting a particular food actually means with respect to one's progress - even just in your own mind as you assess how things are going. To me, this seems to go hand in hand with the natural tendency towardJeffN wrote:Minimizing/Rationalizing the effect of certain behaviors and/or personal preferences, **especially in regard to certain foods**.
From my perspective, chasing after individual nutrients (without a demonstrated need, based on evidence) is, at best, a distraction; at worst, actively counterproductive to what we seek to accomplish in this group - getting the food and our behaviors right from day to day on a consistent, ongoing basis.carwex wrote:Question: why is a tablespoon of flax a day not recommended on this program?
JeffN wrote:Nutrients and the RDA/DRI
The RDA/DRI’s do not always apply to those following a healthy starch based diet. However by following the guidelines, especially starting meals with a soup or salad and the 50/50 guideline, one's diet with be very nutrient dense. In regard to weight, we do not recommend tracking your nutrients. Follow the plan, and the nutrients will be there.
JeffN wrote:While flax and walnuts may be a rich source of omega 3's, and some will recommended a certain amount, they are not really required at all as all plants have omega 3's and you are getting in plenty even if you don't consume any flax of walnuts.
I think one of the advantages of MWL is that it has a clear, concise, easily-understandable set of guidelines (based on the best evidence) without much "wiggle room." Building in "exceptions" paves the way for still more "exceptions" - if THIS exception is OK, why not that - after all, a little (avocado, tofu, walnuts, peanut butter, toast, soy milk, coconut cream, popcorn, chocolate, wine, &c.) isn't likely to be a problem in small amounts, right?JeffN wrote:1) My position on ALL supplements is that I do not recommend:
-the general and/or random use of any supplement
-supplements without informed consent. (All supplements have some risk)
-supplementation without a clearly established need that has been established in the context of a professional evaluation from a competent healthcare professional. All treatment is predicated upon proper diagnosis.
-supplementation that does not include the appropriate and continuing professional monitoring with a competent healthcare professional
-any supplement that is sold through an MLM company or from the healthcare professional recommending them.
2) In regard to general nutrition, I recommend the following:
-Undergo a complete nutritional evaluation of your diet to see if there are any nutrients that may be considered low.
-If there are any nutrients considered low, identify the healthiest foods that are highest in nutrient density for those nutrients and then adjust your diet to include more of these foods in your diet.
-Once done, re-evaluate your diet to make sure it is nutritionally adequate.
-You can do this with the help of a nutrition professional or you can do this yourself with one of the nutrition program available. My personal recommendation for this is the CRON-O-Meter, which is a free program and the nutrient search tool available at http://www.nutritiondata.com.
3)For those who have chosen to follow a diet completely free of all animal products, they have created a “need” for Vitamin B12 and so in this situation, a reliable source of Vitamin B12 is required and a supplement might be the way to fill that need.
4)In regard to the current focus on Vitamin D, if you are concerned or in the “at risk” category:
-Get yourself tested
-If you are deficient, then you need to speak with your healthcare adviser about how to raise your levels. You have several choices including sunshine, artificial UV light, supplements, prescription or a combination.
-Choose the option or combination of options you are most comfortable with and in 3 months, retest.
-If your numbers are now normal, you have the same options to choose from on how you will maintain your levels.
-If your numbers are still low, continue for 3 more months and then once again, re-evaluate your levels.
-The following groups are considered, "At risk”
- Breastfed infants
- Older adults
- People with limited sun exposure
- People with dark skin
- People with fat malabsorption
- People who are obese or who have undergone gastric bypass surgery
5)Lastly, in regard to the therapeutic use of supplements to treat specific health and medical conditions, yes, it is true that in some specific situations for some specific diseases, supplements may play a beneficial role. However, to see if this situation may apply specifically to you, please see my recommendations in point 1 above. Remember, all treatment is predicated upon proper diagnosis.
JeffN wrote:People struggle to achieve their goals and when they take a close look at their diet, they see, there are too many foods that may be allowed but not ideal.
That is why many can't find success till they go on the MWL program (or some other stricter version of the program). The MWL is pretty black and white about what is allowed. There are no exceptions to it either. The regular program has a lot of gray area. And, for many, the little becomes a lot.
Mark Cooper wrote:That is why many can't find success till they go on the MWL program (or some other stricter version of the program). The MWL is pretty black and white about what is allowed. There are no exceptions to it either. The regular program has a lot of gray area. And, for many, the little becomes a lot.
josietheschnauzer wrote:I can't believe I am making it through December and January not going off the deep end of pleasure trapping!!! Cheers and all that!
josietheschnauzer wrote:Also, for Jeff, I hope this isn't a totally stupid question relating to sodium. Sadly, everything I pick up that is canned is way over the top: Canned artichokes are an example. Sometimes I can't find the sodium free frozen ones. Is there a way to reduce the "sodium density" of a canned product like we can reduce the calorie density of a dish when we add more vegetables?
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