Moderators: JeffN, f1jim, carolve, Heather McDougall
Mark Cooper wrote:Noella - Don't despair! Falling into the Pleasure Trap is never fun, but you know exactly the pattern of behavior that will lead you back out again; it just takes adherence + time. That number on the scale, which I'm sure felt shocking, can be erased in due course. What is most important is to get directly back on track, and preserve the many quality of life improvements you've worked so hard to attain. Do you feel like there was some specific development or change in your day to day context, environment or preparation that opened the door for the detour into non adherent food? If so, tackling that obstacle should help. Make it as easy as you can for yourself to reach for the recommended foods whenever you feel hungry, and block your access to anything troublesome, as best you can. I know you can do it; after all, you've done it before, right?
JeffN wrote:Health 1st wrote:Question: For #1, can it be 30 to 60 minutes before #2? I did this sometimes and used #1 as a snack before my 50/50 plate meal. The snack definitely took the edge off of my hunger + I ate less when it came to my meal.
If you are using it as a pre-load and for the benefits of the pre-load (reduced consumption at a particular meal), then it is best to have it right before the meal
If you are hungry and having it as a snack, then its a snack but not a pre-load.
Either way is fine but for the intended benefit of the pre-load, it is best right before the meal.
In Health
Jeff
JeffN wrote:The recommendations of Dr. McDougall and myself come from not only a thorough review and understanding of the scientific literature on these issues, but also from decades of clinical experience working with clients in a closed residential setting.
However, in the last few years, people have come up with their own personal ways to improve the MWL program ("hacks"), usually based on their own short term experience or a “N of 1.” Most often, they do not have the understanding of the literature or the long-term clinical experience we do. In addition, we are not interested in promoting "hacks" to the MWL to produce short term results that will be unsustainable for most people. As Dr. McDougall always says at the program, we are not here for instant results, we are here to get you to like the food and teach you a sustainable program. We could easily serve you an all (or mostly) vegetable diet and you would have better initial short-term results but it will be unsustainable. As Dr. Lisle says, be the tortoise, not the hare.
It is important to realize that any "hacks" to the MWL that are not in the above newsletters, or that do not come directly from Dr. McDougall or myself, are not part of the MWL program, nor do we recommend them.
As Dr. McDougall said in a recent newsletter...
"many popular healthcare "gurus" have had no formal education in the potentially life-threatening matters of your health. Almost as troubling are the credentialed healthcare/diet advisors who provide advice based solely on reading other people's research articles. The relevance of their guidance must be placed in the context that many of them haven't touched a patient since their primary dietetic or medical training."
People will often say, I was doing the MWL program but it wasn't working till I also did "X," to which they are often unaware that "X" Is already a part of the MWL program. On the other hand, people will often say they are following the MWL program and doing "Y" but they are unaware that "Y" is not part of the MWL program nor recommended.
Before making any "hacks" to the MWL program, we recommend you give the MWL program with the refinements mentioned above a fair and honest chance. If you are having difficulty, then join the weekly weigh-in group and/or contact us directly.
Here are a few of the "hacks" people make that are not recommended. None of these are new. All have been around for a long time and seem to get recycled every few years
- A predominately raw food diet
- Eating only raw foods till 4 PM
- Intermittent fasting
- Restricted feeding window
- Extended fasts to lose weight
- Smoothies
- Juicing
- Basing their diet on non-starchy vegetables
- Eating only foods low in the GI/GL
- Not including starch at each meal.
- Delaying the starch component of a meal.
- Eating only fruit for breakfast
- Eating only non-starchy vegetables for breakfast
- Excessive or extreme exercise
- Food Combining
- Meal Replacements
- Supplements
In regard to added salt and added sugar, we recommend buying and preparing food without either and if any are to be used, to add them at the table on the surface of the food. If either one is troublesome and create uncontrollable cravings for you, then leave them out.
While anecdotal stories are interesting, and you can always find them for almost any intervention, that is not why we are here or what our programs are based on. If we go by anecdotal evidence, we open a huge door that we don't really want to because then why not believe anyone with any anecdotical stories and testimonials regardless if they are doing any of the "hacks" listed above or if they are doing Paleo, Atkins, Weight Watchers, etc.
We are here because we are an evidence & science based program.
Mark Cooper wrote:As always, do the best you can to be totally honest with yourself about your current efforts and what you are capable of achieving. Think about your overall pattern of behavior, and whether it is congruent with your personal goals. Ultimately, we are all working to build a way of life for ourselves - a way of life that supports our health and well-being, and that bolsters our energy, enthusiasm, and happiness. If we are fortunate, we can inhabit that wonderful way of life for the longest duration of time possible. Developing a broad understanding of the concepts we discuss here can seem daunting and involved, as illustrated in this discussion of satiety and calorie density.JeffN wrote:It is important to always discuss satiety per calorie so we always have an equal/standardized comparison and in regard to short term (~1 hour) vs long term (~3-4 hours) satiety. While fruits and veggies have high short term satiety, they don’t have high long term satiety
Water as part of food is included as in soups, oatmeal etc. where as liquid calories as in juice, non-dairy milk isn’t.
There are many factors to satiety that are more like finer details such as chewing, fiber/kcal, %fat, texture, degree of processing etc that matter when comparing foods of equal or similar calorie density.
If some of you are interested in taking a "deep dive" into the numerous interesting and complicated factors that contribute to Passive Overconsumption: The Unintended Intake of Excess Calories, I highly recommend the following threads:
Finding The Sweet Spot: Balancing Calorie Density, Nutrient Density & Satiety
Question about Ramen noodles?
3-5 lbs of food a day?
food really unlimited??
The Jeff Novick, RD subforum is filled with fascinating and valuable information on a seemingly infinite number of topics, and the answers to many questions are contained therein.
If further study seems interesting and enjoyable to you, by all means pursue those interests. Conversely, if that feels like an insurmountable burden that you don't want to tackle - YOU ARE IN LUCK! You can reap great benefit from the collective and cumulative knowledge and experience of Dr. McDougall and Jeff Novick; their recommendations come from a thorough review and understanding of the scientific literature combined with decades of clinical experience. That is the beauty of the MWL 10-Point Checklist and the MWL guidelines - they have distilled all that knowledge and experience into a set of recommendations that are clear and actionable. Our task is simply to take action in our own lives, informed by those recommendations.
Gabby7 wrote:Thanks Mark - just to clarify, no I didn’t have any high fat plant foods. I believe it was just a random swing potentially aided by that time of the month. Checked the scale this morning and it said a net loss of .8 so possibly just some water or fiber retention. Still plan to focus on pre-loading this week and activity since I’m feeling better. Have a great week!
JeffN wrote:VegSeekingFit wrote:
A) Is there an acceptable substitute for Low-Sodium Tamari?
B) Or, is it acceptable to dilute this product with water to add a little soy flavor?
Low sodium tamari is just a source of sodium. Like all sources of sodium (Salt, soy, Tamari, miso, braggs), what matters most is the total amount of sodium contributed. Yes, if you want to have some of the flavor and less sodium, they you can dilute it with water. Some products, like coconut amino's are already much lower in sodium but I don't know if they will have the flavor you are looking for.VegSeekingFit wrote:C) Or, is it recommended to find a completely different condiment that meets the guidelines, but can't really replace but would be used in lieu of Low-Sodium Tamari??
All the sources of sodium mentioned above are allowed, The issue is not which one, but how much. Just add to taste at the table and/or dilute like suggested and you should be fine.VegSeekingFit wrote:(i.e., something like Chili Garlic with no sodium, no sugar)
All of these have to be checked. Often times, when something is lower in sodium, it may be higher in salt or vice versa. And some of these may have oil in them too.
In Health
Jeff
Mark Cooper wrote:VegSeekingFit - Really excellent adherence and a big loss, too! I heartily support your efforts to focus on the behaviors instead of getting caught up with intermediate results. I also COMPLETELY agree that there is value in keeping a food journal; it was absolutely essential to my progress, for all the reasons you have highlighted. Those big batches of roasted mushrooms and veggies sound delicious, and are a great practice for staying prepared. Jeff responded to your question about Tamari, just in case you missed seeing it, Stephanie. Have a great week!
Rebecka22 wrote: One thing I think I need to work through is having people over. I’m torn between wishing people could just enjoy what I eat and serving what they like. Sometimes it makes me just not want to have people over. I need to plan a graduation party for my husband, but some of the people would definitely not be okay with my menu. Sometimes it feels so extra though, like you don’t like strawberries and watermelon because all the food is vegan??? I think I just need to figure out my role in it all and how to not be annoyed.
VegSeekingFit wrote: Thank you so much, Jeff for your response to my question. I really appreciate that you took the time to do so and I now understand!!!
VegSeekingFit wrote: On a side note, I made a batch of your basic bean burger recipe last week (added a bit of raw onion) and the burgers were delicious!!!
At a guess, I would say it is probably Tuttorosso No Salt Added Crushed Tomatoes with Basil; it comes in a 28oz can at my local grocery store. It is really tasty.VegSeekingFit wrote:I don't know if this is fair to ask 2.5ish years later... so, completely understand if you can't answer... there is a crushed tomato sauce in several of your photos... What is that made of?? (Sounds yummy...)
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