The Behavioral Path to MWL Success - March 2023 Group

[VegSeekingFit]

Hi Team Time & Adherence, ❤️

Hope that everyone is doing well !

1 Start each meal with a soup and/or salad and/or fruit.
I think I am at about 1/3 here for the week. I am looking to maintain.

2 Follow the 50/50 plate method for your meals, filling half your plate (by visual volume) with non-starchy vegetables and 50% (by visual volume) with minimally processed starches. Choose fruit for dessert.
Mostly YES (but not 100%).

3 Greatly reduce or eliminate added sugars and added salts. This includes gourmet sugars and salts too. If either is troublesome for you, you can eliminate them.
Yes. Reduced, not eliminated.

4 Eliminate all animal foods (dairy, meat, eggs, fish, seafood).
Yes.

5 Eliminate all higher fat plant foods (i.e., nuts, seeds, avocados, tofu, soy).
Yes.

6 Eliminate any added oil.
Yes.

7 Eliminate all higher calorie-dense foods including flour products (i.e., bread, bagels, muffins, crackers, dry cereals, cookies, cakes, puffed cereals, air-popped popcorn, and dried fruit).
Yes.

8 Don’t drink your calories especially from juices & sugar-sweetened beverages).
Yes.

9 Follow these principles, eating whenever you are hungry until you are comfortably full. Don't starve yourself and don't stuff yourself.
Yes, no starving and no stuffing.

10 Avoid being sedentary and aim for at least 30 minutes or more of moderate exercise daily (i.e., brisk walking).
Still overall no, but slow incremental progress with at least 3 days a yes.

Victories, comments, concerns, questions:

Just comments…

Mark – Thanks for your support and for sharing that explanation on non-violent communication. Looked this up and have to ❤️!!! Agree 100% with everything that Gimmelean so eloquently stated. Really do love this and think it is amazing!!! You are appreciated beyond belief!!!

Bambi --- It helps me so much too to keep my “why” in mind.

Rebecka—I love this appreciate your food thought!!! That is fantastic!!!

Arista --- Congrats on your progress!! That is so awesome!!! Hoping you find some meals that you love!!!

Holly --- You go girl with this avoidance of cookies even after a tough encounter with an auto dealer!!! Awesome!!!

Gimmelean --- We had 2 back-to-back Pi Days at work!!! I feel your pain!!! I honestly didn’t know that “Pi Day” was a widespread thing…

Eric --- Can’t agree more that it could be easy to stop McD’ing--- have done that before myself. Love this group and the accountability / process / community / support. So helpful to just keep going!!!

Waving a huge “hi” to everyone! Hope you all have a successful and amazing week.

Best,
Stephanie

[Ejg]

I was watching one of those Chef AJ “eat to the left of the red line” videos on youtube today and she said average calorie density needs to be 567 calories per pound to maintain weight loss. Fine, but I also did the math on (dry) rolled oatmeal this week: 300 calories per cup (81 grams) ~ 1700 calories per pound. Oatmeal would seem to be highly noncompliant unless I’m missing something but swore I thought it was on the “approved” list for MWL. if somebody more knowledgeable than me could weigh in (pun intended!) I would appreciate it. -Eric

[Mark Cooper]

I was watching one of those Chef AJ “eat to the left of the red line” videos on youtube today and she said average calorie density needs to be 567 calories per pound to maintain weight loss. Fine, but I also did the math on (dry) rolled oatmeal this week: 300 calories per cup (81 grams) ~ 1700 calories per pound. Oatmeal would seem to be highly noncompliant unless I’m missing something but swore I thought it was on the “approved” list for MWL. if somebody more knowledgeable than me could weigh in (pun intended!) I would appreciate it. -Eric

I think this thread offers some useful clarity in regard to calorie density and the utility of any single specific "red line" or "cutoff number".

In regard to oatmeal, and dry rolled oats vs. cooked:

Just to provide some perspective - if those rolled oats are cooked in water (with a ratio of at least 2 parts water to 1 part oats), suddenly the calorie density changes from that scary ~1700 calories / lb, to a very nearly ideal ~300 calories / lb and an excellent rating in satiety as well! So oatmeal is a great choice for MWL, just not the dry oats (without further cooking).

Three things drive calorie density up... fat, refined carbs (sugars/flours) and the process of drying & removing water (which is why dried fruit is calorie dense, not because of the sugar).

The two things that drive satiety up are fiber & water and both together work better then either alone. Micronutrients do not impact satiety/hunger.

And remember, satiety is calculated per calorie so to properly do the experiment, you would have to compare 1.5 cups dry oats moistened with a little water vs 1.5 cups dry oats cooked with 3 cups water cooked into oatmeal, to see which one is more filling.

They have actually studied this and the when they compare two equal/similar foods, the one with the more water incorporated into it always comes out on top.

Just as an FYI, by using only a 1:1 ratio of water to oats instead of a 2:1 ratio, you increase the calorie density of the recipe by about 60%, (from around 300-350 cal/lb for regular rolled oats to about 500-550 cal/lb for overnight oats using a 1:1 ratio). For many, it probably wouldn't matter, but for some, it might.

I.e., oatmeal (oats cooked in water, ideally in a water-to-oats ration of at least 2:1) is perfectly suitable for MWL, dry rolled oats (without further cooking or preparation to lower the calorie density) are not.

[JeffN]

Thanks Mark!

she said average calorie density needs to be 567 calories per pound to maintain weight loss.

Here’s another thread that discusses the history of the numbers and the various cutoffs of calorie density.

https://www.drmcdougallforums.com/viewt ... 51#p476851

In Health
Jeff

[Ejg]

Thanks for the quick, thorough responses to my question about oatmeal. I like to eat oatmeal for breakfast so was glad its considered within bounds. I had a shaky past couple weeks, but this week got back on track with two exceptions involving salt.

1. Start each meal with a soup and/or salad and/or fruit. Yes, ate salad before every meal with the exception of breakfast, where I added fruit to my oatmeal (I think this counts for #1, if not please let me know)
2. Follow the 50/50 plate method for your meals, filling half your plate (by visual volume) with non-starchy vegetables and 50% (by visual volume) with minimally processed starches. Choose fruit for dessert. Not sure if this is a yes or no:
for lunch/dinner, a definite yes because I steam broccoli or cauliflower daily and split my plate, but for breakfast, just did oatmeal/fruit (no non starchy vegetables). Curious how others do breakfast: do you add some kind of non starchy vegetable at breakfast too?
3. Greatly reduce or eliminate added sugars and added salts. This includes gourmet sugars and salts, too. If either is troublesome for you, you can eliminate them. No. I got a recipe for fried rice from the McDougall website which called for low sodium soy sauce. I cooked a LOT of rice and remember looking at it thinking, "this should last at least a couple days," but when I added the soy sauce, found myself eating WAY more than I would if there hadn't been salt included (even low Na soy sauce is really salty). I recognized where this was headed and threw away the soy sauce.
4. Eliminate all animal foods (dairy, meat, eggs, fish, seafood). yes
5. Eliminate all higher fat plant foods (i.e., nuts, seeds, avocados, tofu, soy). yes
6. Eliminate any added oil. yes
7. Eliminate all higher calorie-dense foods including flour products (i.e., bread, bagels, muffins, crackers, dry cereals, cookies, cakes), puffed cereals, air-popped popcorn and dried fruit. yes
8. Don't drink your calories (especially from juices & sugar-sweetened beverages). yes
9. Follow these principles, eating whenever you are hungry until you are comfortably full. Don't starve yourself and don't stuff yourself. No, see #3 above about the fried rice. I've really been trying to pay attention to this one. I've been trying to eat what I think are slightly smaller portions (sequencing salad --> 50% starch/50% non starch) and letting that sit for a few minutes, then if I'm hungry, going through the sequence again for another helping. I am not restricting how much I eat (and so therefore am never going hungry) but sometimes feel like I'm giving myself servings that are way too big (but look reasonable at the time), finishing the whole plate, then feeling afterward like I ate too much. So now I'm trying to give myself slightly smaller servings and if I'm still hungry going back for more. I feel like its been pretty effective, after I finish my plate and sit for 5 or 10 minutes, I almost always realize that I'm satisfied and have had enough
10. Avoid being sedentary and aim for at least 30 minutes or more of moderate exercise daily (i.e., brisk walking). yes

I've tried many of the McDougall recipes and they're all good but honestly, I feel that this works best for me if I keep the recipes as boring as possible. When the food tastes good (I mean REALLY good), I almost always find myself overindulging somehow. When I keep things boring, I know that I'm eating because I'm actually hungry, not for the many other reasons people eat such as boredom, tiredness, frustration, or whatever. When I'm actually hungry, the plain stuff tastes pretty satisfying. So I'm trying to keep the recipes very simple (and boring) but something that I think can be sustainable for the long term. I've found that cooking plain mushrooms in water until soft, then adding to my food, tastes pretty good, and I think I saw pineapples the other day at the store, I was thinking of getting one and adding that to give it some sweetness. I dunno. That's all. Have a good week

[Rebecka22]

1.Start each meal with a soup and/or salad and/or fruit. YES
2. Follow the 50/50 plate method for your meals, filling half your plate (by visual volume) with non-starchy vegetables and 50% (by visual volume) with minimally processed starches. Choose fruit for dessert. YES
3. Greatly reduce or eliminate added sugars and added salts. This includes gourmet sugars and salts, too. If either is troublesome for you, you can eliminate them. YES
4. Eliminate all animal foods (dairy, meat, eggs, fish, seafood). YES
5. Eliminate all higher fat plant foods (i.e., nuts, seeds, avocados, tofu, soy). YES
6. Eliminate any added oil. YES
7. Eliminate all higher calorie-dense foods including flour products (i.e., bread, bagels, muffins, crackers, dry cereals, cookies, cakes), puffed cereals, air-popped popcorn and dried fruit. YES
8. Don't drink your calories (especially from juices & sugar-sweetened beverages). YES
9. Follow these principles, eating whenever you are hungry until you are comfortably full. Don't starve yourself and don't stuff yourself. YES
10. Avoid being sedentary and aim for at least 30 minutes or more of moderate exercise daily (i.e., brisk walking). YES

I had a pretty good week. Have been hungrier lately, but I’m eating the right things so I think it’s okay. Last week you asked if the act of taking time to appreciate my food was helping. I do think it is helping me with having less feelings of missing out or being too restricted. It doesn’t mean I never feel like this, but it is helpful to stop and think about how much I do like my food and that I would feel like I without it.

[Greens]

1.Start each meal with a soup and/or salad and/or fruit. Yes
2. Follow the 50/50 plate method for your meals, filling half your plate (by visual volume) with non-starchy vegetables and 50% (by visual volume) with minimally processed starches. Choose fruit for dessert. Yes
3. Greatly reduce or eliminate added sugars and added salts. This includes gourmet sugars and salts, too. If either is troublesome for you, you can eliminate them. Yes
4. Eliminate all animal foods (dairy, meat, eggs, fish, seafood). Yes
5. Eliminate all higher fat plant foods (i.e., nuts, seeds, avocados, tofu, soy). Yes
6. Eliminate any added oil. Yes with the exception of restaurant meals, requested no oil but pretty sure they don’t get it.
7. Eliminate all higher calorie-dense foods including flour products (i.e., bread, bagels, muffins, crackers, dry cereals, cookies, cakes), puffed cereals, air-popped popcorn and dried fruit. I did put raisins in my thermos oatmeal when we were camping. We went to annual gathering at fairgrounds. I have a very small living space in my horse trailer. Easy to heat water and warm up soups i premade. We had some meals out with others.
8. Don't drink your calories (especially from juices & sugar-sweetened beverages). No, I did indulge at social events.
9. Follow these principles, eating whenever you are hungry until you are comfortably full. Don't starve yourself and don't stuff yourself. Yes
10. Avoid being sedentary and aim for at least 30 minutes or more of moderate exercise daily (i.e., brisk walking). Yes, this was especially easy as it was dry out and new places to see.

Missed last weeks check in while we were out of town. Need the accountability and to see others navigating our food choices. I admit that today was a hard one for me to stay on track. My horse of 20+ years passed away and I’m not sure why that makes all indulgences sound soothing. I had pulled out an adult beverage and then put it back and made tea. Just as soothing for looking at photos and remembering fun adventures. A big part of my why is to be able to be active and have more adventures.

Appreciate this forum and those in it.

Marilyn

[Gimmelean]

Post for week ending 3/24/23

Greetings everyone.

1) Start each meal with a soup and/or salad and/or fruit.
Yes.

2). Follow the 50/50 plate method for your meals.
Yes.

3) Greatly reduce or eliminate added sugars and added salts.  This includes gourmet sugars and salts too.  If either is troublesome for you, you can eliminate them.
Yes.

4) Eliminate all animal foods (dairy, meat, eggs, fish, seafood).
Yes

5) Eliminate all higher fat plant foods (i.e., nuts, seeds, avocados, tofu,soy)
No- must eliminate nuts

6) Eliminate any added oil.
Yes.

7) Eliminate all higher calorie-dense foods including flour products (i.e. bread, bagels, muffins, crackers, dry cereals, cookies, cakes), puffed cereals, air popped popcorn, and dried fruit.
Occasionally- not daily. I feel best when I completely eliminate flour products and the scale immediately reflects a difference too.

8 ) Don’t drink your calories (especially from juices & sugar-sweetened beverages).
Yes.

9) Follow these principles, eating whenever you are hungry until you are comfortably full.   Don't starve yourself and don't stuff yourself.
Yes

10) Avoid being sedentary and aim for at least 30 minutes or more of moderate exercise daily (i.e., brisk walking).
Yes.

Victories,Comments,Concerns,Questions: I started listening to “Atomic Habits” by James Clear on audible yesterday thanks to recommendations from the group. The behavioral content is very relatable to what we do here (and what I need to do) to succeed and build healthy habits with MWL over the long term and not be discouraged in the short term.
I think of planting bulbs in the fall. You don’t see anything happening during a dark and dismal winter but suddenly comes spring and everything bursts into bloom all at once. You didn’t see it happening while it was working, but now you can see the results of your efforts.
I bought some stokes purple sweet potatoes yesterday from Sprouts and can’t wait to try them out. They were expensive as potatoes go but nowhere near as costly as meat, or a cake, or a restaurant meal which I’ve mostly eliminated. Interestingly they were developed and patented in North Carolina. The color is so vibrant they will literally make everything else on the plate pale next to them.
Thank you for the suggestions!
Marilyn, I’m very sorry to to learn that you lost your horse of 20+ years. That is a very long life for a horse and attests to the love and good care you gave.

[Lizzy_F]

Hi everyone! I've missed the last couple of checkins because I missed the deadline, and almost missed it today!

This is going to be really short, or I will miss the deadline (again). For April, I am going to do checkins on Fridays so I avoid this problem.

For the last week, I have to claim a "no" for nine of the 10 points due to a surprise birthday party that I was, by default, completely unprepared for. My well intentioned sister-in-law seems to think that carrot cake is a vegetable. I will spare you all the gory details, but suffice it to say that my husband has now receieved training in how no more of these surprises are to happen - at least not within the family! I have reached the age of 65 and am still above ground, medication free, and last I checked was still within my goal weight range, so it could be a lot worse!

The page has been turned. I have been back to the 10 point check list for several days now and feeling stronger and more committed than ever. It was a very humbling experience to feel so unprepared and out of control. I'm not sure how I would handle it differently in the future, other than to try to make sure it doesn't happen at all.

Marilyn - I just want to say that I am so sorry for your loss of your horse. These animals we bond with are part of our family!

I look forward to a strong April with no distractions!

[Hjklost55]

3-25

Hello Group…. Just realized it is almost cutoff time again, so this will be short.
1. Start each meal with a soup and/or salad and/or fruit.
Most days

2. Follow the 50/50 plate method for your meals, filling half your plate (by visual volume) with non-starchy vegetables and 50% (by visual volume) with minimally processed starches. Choose fruit for desert
YES

3. Greatly reduce or eliminate added sugars and added salts. This includes gourmet sugars and salts, too. If either is troublesome for you, you can eliminate them.
YES

4. Eliminate all animal foods (dairy, meat, eggs, fish, seafood).
YES, no problem with this. Can’t hardly stand to even walk through the meat dept at the supermarket!!

5. Eliminate all higher fat plant foods (i.e., nuts, seeds, avocados, tofu, soy).
YES

6. Eliminate any added oil.
YES

7. Eliminate all higher calorie-dense foods including flour products (i.e., bread, bagels, muffins, crackers, dry cereals, cookies, cakes), puffed cereals, air-popped popcorn and dried fruit.
YES…. No cookie monsters this week!!!

8. Don't drink your calories (especially from juices & sugar-sweetened beverages).
YES

9. Follow these principles, eating whenever you are hungry until you are comfortably full. Don't starve yourself and don't stuff yourself. Better this week with this category.

10. Avoid being sedentary and aim for at least 30 minutes or more of moderate exercise daily (i.e., brisk walking).
NO, didn’t get my exercise in this week.

Victories, comments, concerns, questions. Have been sick for almost 2 weeks now, so haven’t felt like doing much. Therefore no exercise……. UGH!! Hopefully I will be back on track come Monday Morning. Hope everyone had a good week.

Take Care,
Holly

[Noella]

1. Start each meal with a soup and/or salad and/or fruit.
2. Follow the 50/50 plate method for your meals, filling half your plate (by visual volume) with non-starchy vegetables and 50% (by visual volume) with minimally processed starches. Choose fruit for dessert.
3. Greatly reduce or eliminate added sugars and added salts. This includes gourmet sugars and salts, too. If either is troublesome for you, you can eliminate them.
4. Eliminate all animal foods (dairy, meat, eggs, fish, seafood).
5. Eliminate all higher fat plant foods (i.e., nuts, seeds, avocados, tofu, soy). One lunch included avocado. I had been sick for several days and eating less food generally, so the extra calories at one meal probably won't cause a problem.
6. Eliminate any added oil.
7. Eliminate all higher calorie-dense foods including flour products (i.e., bread, bagels, muffins, crackers, dry cereals, cookies, cakes), puffed cereals, air-popped popcorn and dried fruit.
8. Don't drink your calories (especially from juices & sugar-sweetened beverages).
9. Follow these principles, eating whenever you are hungry until you are comfortably full. Don't starve yourself and don't stuff yourself.
10. Avoid being sedentary and aim for at least 30 minutes or more of moderate exercise daily (i.e., brisk walking). I know what I need to do... This week I had a very bad cold; it's not COVID, I did a rapid test, but I have been seriously under the weather with sore throat and severe coughing. Feels like more than a week was stolen from me.

Victories: I'm feeling thankful for the knowledge I have gained and continue to learn each week. This is especially true when I read news headlines about the dangers and side effects of weight-loss surgeries and the 'new' weight-loss drugs.



Thank you to everyone for contributing.

[Mark Cooper]

The window for reporting this week's behavioral results has officially closed.

My replies and the weekly summary will follow.

[Mark Cooper]

Ejg - Really significant progress from your previous self-assessment, Eric! I think this post covers your questions regarding fruit within the context of a preload and/or the 50/50 plate. Fruit can be a suitable option in both instances. Speaking personally, I love fruit, but I do really enjoy savory oatmeal, too. I'll cook oatmeal with mixed vegetables, collard greens, diced tomatoes and seasoning, basically using the SNAP template and it turns out delicious. It sounds like you are taking a sensible and mindful approach toward honing in on "comfortably full." Like you, I find that soy sauce tends to trigger overindulgence for me, so I avoid using it. As you observed, cooked mushrooms are a great way to bring umami to a dish. I will quite often use pineapple to add some sweetness to an appropriate dish; I think it works well, but I love the taste of pineapple, anyway. Keep at it!

Rebecka22 - Awesome progress! I think it's great that your efforts to be mindful about appreciating and savoring your food feel helpful for diminishing that sense of "missing out." It seems to me that strong feelings of deprivation can often be a trigger for overindulgence or binges, so keeping those sensations away, or at least at a mild level seems really useful.

Greens - My condolences for the passing of your horse, Marilyn; the loss of a decades-long valued presence in one's life would be a hard day for any of us. It is comforting that you were able to find some solace in happy memories and photos. Looking forward to more adventures to come seems like a very powerful WHY. Take care and be well as you forge ahead.

Gimmelean - I REALLY LOVE your analogy to planting bulbs in the fall; one's thoughtful and consistent efforts "burst into bloom" over the passage of time. Glad you are finding Atomic Habits to be relatable; I think it has quite a bit of useful information applicable to our efforts here. Enjoy the stokes purple sweet potatoes! I just received a big box of Hawaiian purple sweet potatoes, myself. YUM!

Lizzy_F - I'm so glad to see you are still hanging in with us! Happy Birthday, Beth!

I have reached the age of 65 and am still above ground, medication free, and last I checked was still within my goal weight range

Great and valuable outcomes. All of us get taken by surprise sometimes, and it sounds like you've done what is possible to circumvent that variety of birthday "present" in the future. Kudos to you for making your way back to the checklist, with renewed strength and commitment. Onward!

Hjklost55 - Fantastic efforts, Holly! Especially considering you've been feeling ill. Wishing you an imminent return to feeling great and being hale and hardy. I find the meat department really unpleasant, as well. Yuck! Best wishes for a good week!

Noella - That is a lot of NODDING HEADS! Sorry to see you are feeling poorly; I wish you a quick and easy return to health. Severe coughing and a sore throat does not sound very fun. I'm right there with you in valuing earned knowledge over news headlines! Take care.

[Mark Cooper]

Woo-hoo! Excellent efforts, everyone! We will have one more check-in on March 31 to close out this month.

I'm sharing a a few posts and threads relating to the concept of calorie density, and its history and development, which came up earlier in our discussions.

Energy Density Studies

Calorie Density Question

A practical application of the principles of calorie density

Finding the "Sweet Spot" vs. a black and white line

Have an amazing week! Take care & be well!

[trueunity]

Original reply:
trueunity - Welcome! That looks like a pretty solid initial self-assessment to me! How are you feeling about things? Any particular tools that are working really well for you? Any specific area where you would most like to focus? Keep at it!

@markcooper 50/50 plate works most days. But I'm struggling to lose weight. Seems like no matter what adjustments I make I just can't reach my healthy weight for height /age.

Is there a good place where I can post my daily food pictures so that they could be reviewed for adjustments or even a place where I can keep a Food Journal that can be reviewed. I'm not trying to get to my egos weight. I'm just wanting to be healthy and functional. I currently feel like a self sabotage energy vampire.

I'm 5'2, 45 years old, 133 pounds. Good health, no medical concerns, no medication.