The Behavioral Path to MWL Success - April 2023 Group

[VegSeekingFit]

Hi,

Thanks, Mark for sharing JeffN's new post to Beyond Burger thread with the study, etc.

This reminded me that I have a question... Not urgent, just trying to plan for a trip later this year (and test what I am planning to bring).

The trip is a cruise, and we are a group of about 15 --- so didn't have much say over the venue (with crappy choices for MWL food). Anyway, I expect that I will need to pack MWL compliant starch choices (there will be plenty of fruits and raw veggies). I am confident that I can get oatmeal at breakfast --- but that's about it.

There is a vegan / vegetarian menu that can be ordered off of .... They have significantly changed it from prior years and each meal offers choice with the "BEYOND" fake meat (veggie sausage, veggie chicken, veggie burger)... So, yeah --- not going to eat that.

Had thought to just bring a rice cooker and a bunch of rice ---- which I could eat happily for the week with the fruits and raw veggies... Found out that you are not allowed to bring any applicance and it did specify this one as an example. BOO BOO BOO!!!!

There is no microwave... Another BOO...

So, I have come to conclusion that I need to bring starch that I can make edible with warm water from coffeepot that will be in room. Planning to bring: oatmeal and McD Split Pea and Black Bean soup cups. Bought a bag of Bob's Red Mill Potato flakes to try.

Question --- Is anyone aware of any other whole grain / starch that can be reconstituted with just warm water that is MWL compliant?

Thanks for any feedback.

Best,
Stephanie

[wildgoose]

Question --- Is anyone aware of any other whole grain / starch that can be reconstituted with just warm water that is MWL compliant?

Stephanie, you’re a brave soul to try to navigate the temptations and restrictions of a cruise ship.

My suggestions, for what they’re worth.

• Contact the cruise line. Tell them your doctor has mandated absolutely no added oil. Not a little oil to grease the pan. Not a drizzle of "healthy" olive oil. No Oil You have to be really blunt and persistent about this. People hear "no oil" to mean "less oil." They don’t think butter is oil. But if you tell them you'd be perfectly happy with plain baked potatoes every day, and plain, steamed (no butter, no sauce of any kind) vegetables, they may say they’ll accommodate you. And you have probably a 50/50 chance that it will actually happen, but those are better odds than you would have if you hadn’t asked.
• While you have the cruise line on the phone/email/text line, ask them about their policy about food brought on board. Lots of them are really strict that all food must be pre-packaged and unopened. Meaning no zipper-lock bags, nothing you put together yourself, no partial containers. Know before you have half of your carefully planned food confiscated at the dock.
• Your ideas of McDougall soup cups, oatmeal, and Bob's potato flakes are good ones. Remember also that lots of things can be cooked in thermoses with hot water — quinoa, oats, pasta, etc. There are many websites dedicated to thermos cooking. Get yourself a quality wide-mouth thermos or two and experiment before you travel.

Good luck!

Goose

[VegSeekingFit]

Thank you a ton, Wildgoose!

Yes, totally not the "vacation" venue that I would have planned (and adding a definite food challenge!), but it will be fun anyway!!! Will focus on the various things to do --- like there is Pickleball at Sea and a nice library area with trivia / games / puzzles, a pool, live music in the PM, etc...

You are spot on with the policy about not bringing any food that is opened (this is also in writing --- must be in original sealed package) --- so, was planning to bring sealed packages of the starchy stuff... I have the thermos that you recommended from my trip to Iowa last year --- getting one or two more is a good idea and I'll just experiment with this quick cooking stuff. For me, I think the key is just not to be hungry. And, I will likely eat more than normal fruit (and oats!).

I have scoured through all of the menus that are posted on-line with 11 places that you can eat (seriously)... and I didn't see a baked potato anywhere... There are clues as to where can get "steamed" rice / veg for certain meals. I will contact the cruise line as you suggest and also will see when on-board / can talk to various folks there to see if it is likely to get something (anything?) compliant. I do plan to bring enough starch to not get hungry. I have a bunch of time ---- just got so bummed out when my rice cooker fell through...

Appreciate your feedback!

Cheers,
Stephanie

[Homesick]

I too am going on a cruise soon and do not have high hopes for food. I'm counting on there being fruits, plain veggies, plain potatoes, and rice made with water, not meat broth, and I will be packing oatmeal. I just want enough healthy food to get by. I notified the company that I am vegan, but I will not eat any fake meat of any kind. It's pretty disgusting and I think it would probably upset my GI tract. I'm not expecting to eat like I do at home. When I return home I am planning on going all in with more balanced food compliance.

Any suggestions would be gratefully accepted! I am a bit frustrated that such a simple and basic thing as Healthy Food is so difficult to obtain out in public.

[Mark Cooper]

Were I planning on taking a cruise, much as wildgoose suggested, I would contact the cruise line to discuss what was possible/permitted, with the aim of securing some sort of acceptable starch in sufficient daily quantities. I would expect that fruits and vegetables would likely be readily available, at least in raw form via salad bars. If allowed, I'd bring starches that could be cooked with hot water (oats, potato flakes, millet, buckwheat, grits) or eaten as is, like lentils or beans. To me, the main concern to focus upon would be an adequate amount of starch, as deprivation frequently leads to lapses, and particularly so in an environment like a cruise ship, I would think. In general, I would try to calibrate my overall expectations for the experience appropriately, to avoid feeling disappointed about whatever menu I could scrape together or feeling like I was "missing out." I try to make my opportunities for social connection about connecting with others and not expect food to be what is memorable about those occasions.

[BambiS]

4-20


1. Start each meal with a soup and/or salad and/or fruit.
Most meals


2. Follow the 50/50 plate method for your meals, filling half your plate (by visual volume) with non-starchy vegetables and 50% (by visual volume) with minimally processed starches. Choose fruit for desert
Yes


3. Greatly reduce or eliminate added sugars and added salts. This includes gourmet sugars and salts, too. If either is troublesome for you, you can eliminate them.
Yes

4. Eliminate all animal foods (dairy, meat, eggs, fish, seafood).
Yes, not an issue here

5. Eliminate all higher fat plant foods (i.e., nuts, seeds, avocados, tofu, soy).
Yes

6. Eliminate any added oil.
Yes


7. Eliminate all higher calorie-dense foods including flour products (i.e., bread, bagels, muffins, crackers, dry cereals, cookies, cakes), puffed cereals, air-popped popcorn and dried fruit.
Yes

8. Don't drink your calories (especially from juices & sugar-sweetened beverages). Yes

9. Follow these principles, eating whenever you are hungry until you are comfortably full. Don't starve yourself and don't stuff yourself
Yes

10. Avoid being sedentary and aim for at least 30 minutes or more of moderate exercise daily (i.e., brisk walking). Yes

Victories, comments, concerns, questions good week, nothing eventful.

I had a good week, I stayed focused, nothing that I shouldn’t have in my mouth! Hit the farmers market, lots of greens and micro greens. I got more walking and did some isometrics. Also stopped eating by 6:00.

[Rebecka22]

1.Start each meal with a soup and/or salad and/or fruit. YES
2. Follow the 50/50 plate method for your meals, filling half your plate (by visual volume) with non-starchy vegetables and 50% (by visual volume) with minimally processed starches. Choose fruit for dessert. YES
3. Greatly reduce or eliminate added sugars and added salts. This includes gourmet sugars and salts, too. If either is troublesome for you, you can eliminate them. YES
4. Eliminate all animal foods (dairy, meat, eggs, fish, seafood). YES
5. Eliminate all higher fat plant foods (i.e., nuts, seeds, avocados, tofu, soy). YES
6. Eliminate any added oil. YES
7. Eliminate all higher calorie-dense foods including flour products (i.e., bread, bagels, muffins, crackers, dry cereals, cookies, cakes), puffed cereals, air-popped popcorn and dried fruit. YES
8. Don't drink your calories (especially from juices & sugar-sweetened beverages). YES
9. Follow these principles, eating whenever you are hungry until you are comfortably full. Don't starve yourself and don't stuff yourself. YES
10. Avoid being sedentary and aim for at least 30 minutes or more of moderate exercise daily (i.e., brisk walking). YES

Generally a good week. I can’t say it was without cravings, but I also can’t say enough for how much a clean environment does for getting through those. While the world is nothing close to a clean environment, at least my house can be. Also planning was critical to avoiding the desire for comfort and convenience.

[Lizzy_F]

Hello fellow travelers!!! WOW I am so grateful for a nice, even keel, steady week. No major hurdles or obstacles and WOW is that nice!! I need to remember to be more grateful for these kinds of days and weeks.

1. Start each meal with a soup and/or salad and/or fruit. Yes

2. Follow the 50/50 plate method for your meals, filling half your plate (by visual volume) with non-starchy vegetables and 50% (by visual volume) with minimally processed starches. Choose fruit for dessert. Yes for lunches & dinners, like my usual

3. Greatly reduce or eliminate added sugars and added salts. This includes gourmet sugars and salts, too. If either is troublesome for you, you can eliminate them. 6/7 (one meal included a higher sugar item than my normal) Also, I focus on reduction, not elimination.

4. Eliminate all animal foods (dairy, meat, eggs, fish, seafood). Yes

5. Eliminate all higher fat plant foods (i.e., nuts, seeds, avocados, tofu, soy). Yes

6. Eliminate any added oil. Yes

7. Eliminate all higher calorie-dense foods including flour products (i.e., bread, bagels, muffins, crackers, dry cereals, cookies, cakes), puffed cereals, air-popped popcorn and dried fruit. 6/7 – one meal included a more calorie dense item than my normal (same as #3)

8. Don't drink your calories (especially from juices & sugar-sweetened beverages). Yes

9. Follow these principles, eating whenever you are hungry until you are comfortably full. Don't starve yourself and don't stuff yourself. Still working on understanding and responding appropriately to my hunger / satiety feelings. I am also recognizing a soft, yet persistent voice in my head that keeps telling me there is something wrong with me for the volume of food that I like to eat, and do eat. I'm not sure what to do about this little voice, but I certainly can't allow it to derail me by promoting a belief that I am broken - I know that won't be helpful.

10. Avoid being sedentary and aim for at least 30 minutes or more of moderate exercise daily (i.e., brisk walking). 7/7 over 10,000 steps. 2 Silver Sneakers classes at the gym. 2 rebounding workouts. My knee has been giving me trouble for the last couple of days, so I haven’t been on the rebounder or doing as much outdoor walking as I would like.

Victories: I’m happy with my food choices this week, and with my overall progress with exercise. My weight is slowly coming back down and I hope to be back inside my goal weight range in the next week or two.


Comments: Stephanie, I'm really glad to read your cruise food question, and to see the responses you have gotten so far. Great food for thought. I don't have any cruise plans on the horizon, but historically I have LOVED cruises and hope there are some out there in my future! So I am paying close attention here! Wishing you loads of fun, and also wishing to be packed in your suitcase!


Concerns:


Questions: I had to take antibiotics (of course – frown face) after the periodontal procedure. My guts felt awful. Per Dr. Lim and Dr. McDougall, I don’t take any supplements under normal circumstances. I have been taking a pre/probiotic daily since I finished the antibiotics. I’m curious what others do after a course of antibiotics. My guts are feeling better, and I also feel like my cravings for sweets, etc. are normalizing. I suspect the cravings may have been due, at least in part, to the gut / antibiotic thing, but am curious what others think and have experienced.

Thank you ALL as always for everything you share - I learn so much being part of this group. Mark, Goose and Jeff, thank you for your tireless efforts to help us all stay on track and keep learning and growing in this way of life!

[Greens]

1) Start each meal with a soup and/or salad and/or fruit. Yes
2) Follow the 50/50 plate method for your meals, filling half your plate (by visual volume) with non-starchy vegetables and 50% (by visual volume) with minimally processed starches. Choose fruit for desert. Yes
3) Greatly reduce or eliminate added sugars and added salts. This includes gourmet sugars and salts too. If either is troublesome for you, you can eliminate them. Yes
4) Eliminate all animal foods (dairy, meat, eggs, fish, seafood). Yes
5) Eliminate all higher fat plant foods (i.e., nuts, seeds, avocados, tofu, soy). No tofu was in restaurant meal.
6) Eliminate any added oil. No, restaurant meal
7) Eliminate all higher calorie-dense foods including flour products (i.e. bread, bagels, muffins, crackers, dry cereals, cookies, cakes), puffed cereals, air-popped popcorn and dried fruit. No, peanut sauce
8 ) Don’t drink your calories (especially from juices & sugar-sweetened beverages). Yes
9) Follow these principles, eating whenever you are hungry until you are comfortably full. Don't starve yourself and don't stuff yourself. Yes
10) Avoid being sedentary and aim for at least 30 minutes or more of moderate exercise daily (i.e., brisk walking). Yes 7/7

With the exception of the Thai restaurant meal, the week felt pretty solid. I was reading about swapping out chili sauce for peanut sauce and will make that change next time for dipping fresh rolls.

Really appreciated the discussion about cruises. Stephanie, I am curious to hear about your experience after you return. I haven’t cruised but do attend horse clinics where you are in remote locations with limited food choices. I can request ahead but sometimes their interpretation is just vegan.

Beth, I take antibiotics when I have dental cleaning since I have a knee replacement. I only have to take 2 doses and don’t notice much in the way of gut effects. It sounded like you had to take a longer course, more challenging.

Marilyn

[VegSeekingFit]

Hi Team Time & Adherence, ❤️

Hope that everyone is having a spectacular week!

1 Start each meal with a soup and/or salad and/or fruit.
Sometimes. Still maintaining.

2 Follow the 50/50 plate method for your meals, filling half your plate (by visual volume) with non-starchy vegetables and 50% (by visual volume) with minimally processed starches. Choose fruit for dessert.
Yes. Mainly eating the same things. Loving them.

3 Greatly reduce or eliminate added sugars and added salts. This includes gourmet sugars and salts too. If either is troublesome for you, you can eliminate them.
Yes. Reduced, not eliminated.

4 Eliminate all animal foods (dairy, meat, eggs, fish, seafood).
Yes.

5 Eliminate all higher fat plant foods (i.e., nuts, seeds, avocados, tofu, soy).
Yes.

6 Eliminate any added oil.
Yes.

7 Eliminate all higher calorie-dense foods including flour products (i.e., bread, bagels, muffins, crackers, dry cereals, cookies, cakes, puffed cereals, air-popped popcorn, and dried fruit).
Yes.

8 Don’t drink your calories especially from juices & sugar-sweetened beverages).
Yes.

9 Follow these principles, eating whenever you are hungry until you are comfortably full. Don't starve yourself and don't stuff yourself.
Yes, no starving and no stuffing.

10 Avoid being sedentary and aim for at least 30 minutes or more of moderate exercise daily (i.e., brisk walking).
Yes. Lots of walking and some pickle ball … feeling great with the exercise! Totally need to improve my pickle ball skillset though!!!

Victories, comments, concerns, questions:

Beth and Marilyn, I have about 6 months before the cruise --- just wanting to not lose sight of planning (which is definitely required). I am thinking I may journal it out --- to end with food pictures … will see… I do have a feeling that what may work best may vary by cruise line. I remembered that Esther Loveridge (Star McDougaller) is a huge "cruiser" and have watched a couple of video clips with her where she describes travel tips and she was pretty happy with cruising (and said she was easily able to stay McD compliant).

Mark, greatly appreciate your comments on the cruise topic. Adding boxes of beans to my list to bring… Also, the mindset part of this adventure completely resonates with me --- like don’t feel deprived, don’t expect to be dazzled by the food, and enjoy time with your peeps!!

Thanks again, Wildgoose for your input! Priceless!

Hope everyone has a happy, healthy, and successful upcoming week!

Best,
Stephanie

[Gimmelean]

Post for week ending 4/21/23


1) Start each meal with a soup and/or salad and/or fruit. Yes.

2). Follow the 50/50 plate method for your meals. Yes

3) Greatly reduce or eliminate added sugars and added salts.  This includes gourmet sugars and salts too.  If either is troublesome for you, you can eliminate them. Yes


4) Eliminate all animal foods (dairy, meat, eggs, fish, seafood).
Yes

5) Eliminate all higher fat plant foods (i.e., nuts, seeds, avocados, tofu,soy) Yes

6) Eliminate any added oil. Yes

7) Eliminate all higher calorie-dense foods including flour products (i.e. bread, bagels, muffins, crackers, dry cereals, cookies, cakes), puffed cereals, air popped popcorn, and dried fruit. No.
No bread or bagels or cookies this week! But I did slip a bit with some commercial tortilla chips here. They seemed excessively salty to me and not appealing or worth it at all.

8 ) Don’t drink your calories (especially from juices & sugar-sweetened beverages). Yes

9) Follow these principles, eating whenever you are hungry until you are comfortably full.   Don't starve yourself and don't stuff yourself. Yes. Always working on this to avoid recreational eating which as Jeff states it, results in passive overconsumption.

10) Avoid being sedentary and aim for at least 30 minutes or more of moderate exercise daily (i.e., brisk walking). Yes. I went to some group fitness classes and really proud for not talking myself out of going to the gym after work this week. I’ve always done well with this checkpoint with daily exercise but time to do better!

Victories,Comments,Concerns,Questions: Thank you for subtly reminding me to reel in that not so latent perfectionist. What does work well for me-
I’ve been preparing a big container of raw veggies ready to grab and pack for work.
I love throwing in a few grapes or a cut up piece of fruit with the veggies in a small container. My husband takes one every day too. He also has berries, papaya, and intact whole grains every day for breakfast;whole oat groats and hulled barley. I’m still batch cooking grains weekly even though I’m not the one eating them. I’m so glad that some features of this way of eating are positively influencing him as well.

Stephanie, I am also tuned in to your posts and replies about your upcoming cruise. I’m sure that I will be faced with the same challenges now that we are “post-pandemic” and traveling again.

[Mark Cooper]

The window for reporting this week's behavioral results has officially closed.

My replies and the weekly summary will follow.

[Mark Cooper]

BambiS - Great effort and focus! It seems like you are building a nice, solid routine for yourself. Carry on!

Rebecka22 - Fantastic progress, especially in light of managing cravings! Totally in agreement with you about the value of a mindfully curated environment to support our efforts, and the importance of planning and preparation. We cannot, as individuals, control the wider world, but we certainly can strive to arrange our environment in support of what we are seeking. Keep it up!

Lizzy_F - Quite a lot to feel happy about with your behavioral assessment and your progress, Beth! Speaking in response to that "soft, yet persistent voice," I would ask "What does the available evidence tell you?" Did you achieve a healthy BMI and the other outcomes you were / are seeking while eating to satiety of the recommended foods? Was that possible while still consuming the volume of food that you like? How much control are we likely to be able to exercise over the volume of food that feels satisfying to us as individuals, as opposed to our control over the calorie density of our diet and our prevailing pattern of behavior? I think this post might address some of the feelings you describe. In regard to antibiotics and probiotics, here are two useful threads where Jeff discusses the topic: Use of antibiotics, and Are probiotics necessary? Hope those answer your question!

Greens - Pretty solid, nice, and consistent, Marilyn! Good reflection to think about possible and suitable swaps when dining out. Do you feel like you have become more confident in your capability to manage the various obstacles while attending those horse clinics? Which tools or strategies have felt most helpful in that situation? Onward!

VegSeekingFit - Consistently excellent adherence, Stephanie! I'm glad my notes about mindset felt resonant; I think that can be an important but often overlooked part of managing social, celebratory, or recreational events. Wishing you all the best in preparing for the adventure!

Gimmelean - Ongoing progress! And your food prep is ON POINT!

I’ve been preparing a big container of raw veggies ready to grab and pack for work. I love throwing in a few grapes or a cut up piece of fruit with the veggies in a small container. My husband takes one every day too. He also has berries, papaya, and intact whole grains every day for breakfast;whole oat groats and hulled barley. I’m still batch cooking grains weekly even though I’m not the one eating them. I’m so glad that some features of this way of eating are positively influencing him as well.

I think it is fantastic that you serve as such an exemplar of health-supporting behavior for your husband. That must feel rewarding and inspiring (it certainly feels that way to me)!

[Mark Cooper]

That brings this week's self-assessment to a close! Great efforts all around and very thoughtful discussion, as well. It feels wonderful to be part of a group of people who are so supportive, determined and considerate.

The links I'm sharing this week aren't particular to our discussion; rather, they're just posts I happened back across during the week and thought were interesting.

From Jeff's website: The Percentage of Calories From Protein in Plant Foods

And, a conversation from The Lounge earlier this year: Eating starches to satiation.

Enjoy! Best to all, take care, & be well!

[BambiS]

4-28


1. Start each meal with a soup and/or salad and/or fruit.
Most meals


2. Follow the 50/50 plate method for your meals, filling half your plate (by visual volume) with non-starchy vegetables and 50% (by visual volume) with minimally processed starches. Choose fruit for desert
Yes


3. Greatly reduce or eliminate added sugars and added salts. This includes gourmet sugars and salts, too. If either is troublesome for you, you can eliminate them.
Yes

4. Eliminate all animal foods (dairy, meat, eggs, fish, seafood).
Yes, not an issue here

5. Eliminate all higher fat plant foods (i.e., nuts, seeds, avocados, tofu, soy).
Yes

6. Eliminate any added oil.
Yes


7. Eliminate all higher calorie-dense foods including flour products (i.e., bread, bagels, muffins, crackers, dry cereals, cookies, cakes), puffed cereals, air-popped popcorn and dried fruit.
Did have a little cereal

8. Don't drink your calories (especially from juices & sugar-sweetened beverages). Yes

9. Follow these principles, eating whenever you are hungry until you are comfortably full. Don't starve yourself and don't stuff yourself
Yes

10. Avoid being sedentary and aim for at least 30 minutes or more of moderate exercise daily (i.e., brisk walking). Most days

Victories, comments, concerns, questions good week, nothing eventful.
It was a pretty good week, did have a handful of cereal.watched some YouTube videos for inspiration, mainly tye pleasure trap. I’ve realized that when my mom moved back about a year ago, slip ups started.she always has sweets at her house. I’m going to have to be strong when visiting her.