I am hungry all the time on McDougall's diet.

[niejemmiesa]

I jumped into an idea of loosing weight, eating all the food I wanted (except fat and animal proteins of course) and feel better physically.

I started 2 weeks ago. I thought I did not like to cook, but now I cook so many different kinds of beans, buckwheat, potatoes, rise, pasta that I can hardly find room in my fridge. I also eat salads with raw veggies, and oatmeal with rice drink, some nuts (not much because of fat in it) and bananas. I believe I apply all the rules that are suggested for this diet.

But the problem is that I am constantly hungry. I have to eat approx. every 3 hours so the amount of food that I cook does not last long. I eat bigger portions to fill my stomach and more often than before I started this diet. I also crave for meat and dream about nice juicy rotisserie chicken or some turkey ham.

I lost approx. 2 pounds, not much, but considering such a amount of food that I devour I would expect to gain lots of weight on normal diet.

I wonder whether this is normal that I am hungry all the time and that i eat so much?

I welcome any suggestions.

Stefania

[sirdle]

Hello Stefania and welcome!

2 lbs in 2 weeks is very good progress; please don't be discouraged!

It is very important that you understand about 'calorie density'. I recommend Jeff Novick's video on calorie density Calorie Density: How To Eat More, Weigh Less and Live Longer.

Eating bigger portions is normal, but being hungry 'all the time' is not. You need to eat when you are hungry. If you try to fight hunger, you will lose. But deciding what to eat when you're hungry is what Jeff's video is all about.

If you eat nothing but fruits and vegetables you will not be able to eat enough calories and you will be hungry. But if you eat too many calorie dense foods (like drinks, smoothies, and nuts), you will not get enough bulk and you will also be hungry.

You need to find a balance between the two.

This may require some experimentation on your part. It sounds like you may need to slightly shift the balance of the calories you are eating to include more starches and fewer fruits/vegetables/nuts/rice drinks.

Best of luck.

Cheers,

====================

Edit: Just to clarify, when you say you are hungry all the time do you mean that when you finish eating you are still hungry? Or that you are comfortably full, but after 3 hours you are hungry again? I typically eat 3 meals a day, with 3 snacks of fruit or veggies scattered throughout the day.

[niejemmiesa]

Thank you for your prompt reply.

I just finished watching the presentation about calories density. I think I was already for the most of the time in the green zone on the graph.

I religiously follow the rules. I eat salads of raw veggies like tomato, lettuce, green onions and spinach with 0 fat dressing and some fruits like apples, strawberries, blueberries, and bananas. The remaining meals are almost exclusively beans, buckwheat, potatoes, pasta, oatmeal, and rice with no fat or low fat condiments. I cannot eat soy products because of the history of breast cancer.

As for being hungry all the time I think I exaggerated. After I eat I am full but get hungry two or three hours later. So basically I eat breakfast, two snacks with veggies and fruits, and three full meals of legumes. And sometimes I have to stuff myself with tortilla to avoid another meal. It comes to eating 6 times a day. And the bulk of each meal is approx. 30% larger than before the diet. It feels like these legumes do not give me enough nutrients or energy so shortly after the meal I start thinking what to eat next.

Maybe it is kind of shock for the metabolism to have such a drastic change of diet. Hopefully after some time my body might get adjusted to it.

[sirdle]

Overall, it sounds like you are doing very well and just need a few minor tweaks.

Eating more volume than before is perfectly normal. Don't worry about that.

While this is a starch-based program, legumes are not required. I only eat about 1/2 cup per day, and don't know how much they would fill me up if I ate them as my primary starch. You might try substituting different starches. Potatoes and sweet potatoes fill me up the most. For some people rice fills them up, but for me white rice leaves me feeling empty (although brown rice fills me up more.)

Also, try to keep the starches at around 50% of your plate of food (by volume). (If you watched the video, I'm sure you already know this!) Remember, it is the starches that are going to fill you up and provide long-term satiety.

As far as eating 6 meals a day... I don't know how common this is, but that's about what I eat. (Other members may chime in.) If this is not a problem, then don't worry about it. Just eat whenever you get hungry.

Best of luck!

Cheers,

[Lyndzie]

I will chime in because I do things a little differently. It’s a matter of finding what works for you.

My meals are mostly starch. Oatmeal with some fruit. Beans and rice with salsa. Pasta with beans and sauce. If I eat less starch, such as the 50/50 plate, I am hungry in just a couple hours, too.

Another thought: because this diet consists of whole plant foods, and not meat or fried foods, it just feels “lighter” in the stomach. Eating your fill while you adjust to the difference is totally reasonable and normal. You can always tweak calorie density as you go to get the weight loss results you want.

[sirdle]

I will chime in because I do things a little differently. It’s a matter of finding what works for you.

My meals are mostly starch. Oatmeal with some fruit. Beans and rice with salsa. Pasta with beans and sauce. If I eat less starch, such as the 50/50 plate, I am hungry in just a couple hours, too.

Another thought: because this diet consists of whole plant foods, and not meat or fried foods, it just feels “lighter” in the stomach. Eating your fill while you adjust to the difference is totally reasonable and normal. You can always tweak calorie density as you go to get the weight loss results you want.

Excellent advice! Thanks Lyndzie!

When I said, "Keep starches at around 50% of your plate of food" I meant "at least 50%"... because I suspect you may not be getting enough starch.

But, as Lyndzie says, it's a matter of finding what works for you!

Cheers,

[niejemmiesa]

Thank you everyone who responded to me for your advise. It makes me feel better that I am not doing anything wrong.

You are all probably slim, healthy and happy. I am looking forward to get to this point.

Regards,
Stefania

[michaelswarm]

I also crave for meat and dream about nice juicy rotisserie chicken or some turkey ham.

Habits and tastes take some time to change. Some people say 21 days. Others say 40 days. I think it takes months to years for tastes to fully change. (Unless maybe you do a water only fast, which I hear speeds up the process.) For me some of my favorite meals were pepperoni pizza and my grandmother’s pork roast, sauerkraut and dumplings with pork gravy. But I don’t dream of them. These things still sound appealing 10 years later.

I have gone back and eaten some of these foods like pizza, after a year or so. They just don’t taste as good. More greasy than I imagined. And digestion slows down and a bit of constipation follows. I am not tempted any more.

I just make sure I always have healthy foods available, and eat my fill of healthy foods, so temptation remains low. Besides my regular meals, I keep a large bowl of fruits, and usually have easy to grab filling snacks like air baked french fries.

Dr Doug Lisle (clinical psychologist for McDougall Program and True North) has some good videos and podcasts interviews about science behind food addition, habits and behavior change.

[niejemmiesa]

I posted this message a year and two months ago when I started my vegan diet. It was October 2019. Now I can evaluate the results of my vegan diet. I started it because I was really impressed by ethical, environmental, and health benefits promoted in different documentaries. I should emphasize that I followed low fat, low salt, and low sugar diet.

When it comes to health aspect of this diet like low cholesterol, low weight and overall health benefits none of them materialized for me. I don't' suggest that there is something wrong with the diet. I believe it is just not for everyone.

Here are the problems that I encountered:
1. I had increased episodes of hypoglycemia,
2. My total cholesterol was 210 after 10 months of dieting,
3. I had low energy and I was constantly sleepy and sluggish,
4. I gained weight (not much but I was supposed to lose it),
5. I was constantly hungry,
6. I had heartburn almost every day. I had to stack up Tums just to survive.

But the worst part were these hypoglycemia attacks. I had to eat almost every hour to be sure that I would not get dizzy. Especially I had to watch it before leaving the house to go shopping or going for a walk.

I quit at the beginning of January 2021. I am not as hungry, I rarely have hypoglycemia episodes, no heartburn, much more energy. I haven't check my cholesterol yet.

Initially I was very enthusiastic about vegan diet. In spite of the fact that I don't like to cook I made all kind of sophisticated dishes from Caldwell and Esselstyn cookbook "Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease".

Vegan diet does not work for me. I don't think I will ever again attempt to apply it. Learning is part of life and I am glad that I tried.

[Lyndzie]

I’m sorry you did not find success. Most often, when a person is not getting the expected results on this program, it is from a lack of either time or adherence. You have devoted plenty of time, so most likely there was a missing puzzle piece regarding your understanding of the program.

Did you reach out to a qualified health professional to get advice on why the program was not working the way you expected?

[niejemmiesa]

if I had health problems and dietitian advised me to have vegan diet to remedy my condition then I would probably need a professional advice. But I feel great and have no need for the physician to tell me that if vegan diet makes me feel worse than I should give up vegan diet. It might work for most of people but maybe not for me. Like with any medication. Most of the people do not experience side effects except very few. I might be one of them.

[Susan5]

I can't speak for Lyndzie, but I suspect she asked that not because you can't figure that out for yourself what makes you feel good, but to see if there were other considerations you might not have thought of that could have been going on. For example, your age may have had something to do with what was going on. If you are perimenopausal, that could have something to do with the hypoglycemia issues you were having. Dr. McDougall, Jeff, or another professional that understands this style of eating, could have guided you through the issues you were having, especially if it was important for you to learn if there was anything you could do to help yourself so that you didn't have to go back to eating in a way that was against the ethical and environmental reasons you mentioned for switching to this way of eating.

[niejemmiesa]

That is true that there might be other issues related to my failure in vegan diet. There might have been insufficient nutrients, vitamins or minerals. Although I religiously used vitamin B12. But since I feel good I leave it for now. When I see my physician I might raise this issue and see what he might say about it.

Google supplies ample of posts, opinions and articles coming from people that had to quit vegan diet for variety of reasons.

As for Mr. McDougal he is beyond my income bracket considering prices of his trainings. In addition he might be biased because of his financial incentive in promoting vegan diet.

Thank you for your responses. I will keep an eye on the issue because I am myself interested to know what went wrong with my diet.

[Freya]

6. I had heartburn almost every day. I had to stack up Tums just to survive.

I'm so sorry to hear of your experience. I find the heartburn situation really interesting. Several years ago I read that heartburn was due to carbohydrates fermenting the small intestine and creating gaseous pressure, and that low carb was the answer. I went on a low carb diet and my heartburn increased dramatically! After just a few days I was popping Tums like candy. I eventually realized that fat was the problem for me and when I switched to McDougall my heartburn disappeared immediately.

I guess it just goes to show that we all have different bodies with different histories and there's no "one size fits all" solution.

[Lyndzie]

Maybe I was a little too subtle, so I’ll try and be a little more to the point. I’m not writing this to help you, as you’ve already made up your mind, but to help the people who are struggling with the program and thinking that there is something wrong with the guidance, that it just doesn’t work for them.

As Jeff writes in a post titled The Top 10 Reasons for Failure:

1) Poor Adherence/compliance. Sometimes from lack of application and sometimes from lack of understanding of the principles.

2) Misdirection of focus/priorities. Focusing on matters that don't really effect your health while not focusing on the ones that do.

3) Minimizing/Rationalizing the effect of certain behaviors and/or personal preferences, **especially in regard to certain foods**.

4) Too many processed/refined and/or calorie dense foods, especially those that are marketing as being "healthy."

5) Not understanding the difference between something that is "allowed" on occasion in small quantities, and something that is "recommended."

6) Inadequate exercise/activity

7) Not planning ahead. If you do not plan ahead for success, you will most likely not find it.

8 ) Time. Healing and results take time and for some of us, it may take a little longer than we hope.

9) Mcdougall "Plus" - This is where you mix the principles taught here with other principles you have read or learned somewhere else that are in conflict with the principles recommended here. While there are some program that are very much inline with these principles (ie, Esselstyn, etc) most are not.

Based purely on what you’ve posted, I would put my money on #1, with maybe a bit of #9. This is NOT A VEGAN DIET. Dr. McDougall recommends a starch-based diet. Yes, it happens to be vegan, but his recommendations revolve around what the human body needs to be healthy, not veganism. Your meals should be predominately potatoes, rice, beans, squash, whole grains, etc. There should be very limited added fats in term of nuts, seeds, olives, and avocados, and absolutely no oil. Additional fruits and veggies are great, but not the focus of meals. If you are not seeing the results you expect, then most likely you are not fully understanding the principles, and/or not completely following the advice.

Jeff used to do extremely reasonably priced phone consults, I’m not sure if he still does, but always feel free to email the McDougall program and they can point you in the direction of competent health care professionals that will make sure you find the professional guidance you need to be successful. If you’d like a free option, then post three days of food on the forum, and also log it in Cronomenter, then let us laypeople give you our two cents. We want everyone to be successful, too, and many folks here have multiple years of experience to draw on.

If you are looking for more information and feeling a little overwhelmed about where to start, Mark has a great list at the beginning of every month’s MWL thread. I particularly like Jeff’s presentation of How to Eat More, Weigh Less and Live Longer, and Dr. Doug Lisle’s lecture How to Lose Weight Without Losing Your Mind.

To anyone out there who is struggling, reach out. This wonderful community is here to support you while you find your footing. And if you ever wander away for a while, we’ll be here when you decide to return. We are a group of people trying to live healthy and happy lives, and support others wishing to do the same.