Fueling: Train Your Fitness Not Stomach

[vgpedlr]

I've posted on this before, but I tested it out in two races.

People are way too concerned about pre/post exercise fueling and taking in calories while exercising.

You don't need to. Just eat your regular meals and snacks according to hunger. Feeling like you're "running out of gas" during exercise is an incorrect metaphor. You're not out of gas, you're out of fitness. You don't need more fuel, you need a bigger engine. It's not that the gas tank is empty, it's that you're trying to tow a trailer with a Smart car instead of a diesel pickup. You can put as much gas as you want into the Smart, it won't increase its horsepower or torque.

Same with our bodies. As long as you're fueled up on starch, your carbohydrate and fat stores give plenty of energy. It's the fitness that needs to improve, and it will, with regular training, and as it does, more can be done with that stored energy.

I've been seeing how little I can fuel my workouts, and found I need very little. Usually just water up to 2 hrs. But I usually train at low intensity 140-145 BPM. What about high intensity, like a race?

I recently ran two trail races, one lasting 3 1/2 hrs, the other a little under 3 hrs. In one I had two small rice balls, two dates and a gel. Far from the conventional recommendations. Yesterday I ran 3 hrs on 20 oz of an amino acid drink with negligible calories(an experiment) and one gel at about 2 1/2 hrs. No hunger, no bonk, felt great. The only suffering was in my legs. Heart rate in the 160s.

Build your fitness, not your GI tract. Don't fall for the sports nutrition industry's sales pitch about what you need. Pushing the limits of your fitness can sometimes be a little uncomfortable, but food won't solve it.

Double post, because for some reason there are two exercise forums.

[Spiral]

I agree with this.

In April 2012, I attempted my 1st half marathon. In it, I avoided fueling until I bonked at 9.5 miles. Then took a walk break until I got to the next aid station. Then I drank a cup of Gatorade. I then alternated jogging for a quarter mile and walking a few hundred feet until I got to the finish line.

My 2nd half marathon, two weeks later, was very similar to my 1st.

During the summer of 2012, I did Maffetone style training. I focused on lots of miles, but at relatively slow paces. I built a larger aerobic engine.

In September 2012, I attempted my 3rd half marathon. I decided to bring 2 GU gels with me. I consumed one at mile 5 and tried to consume the 2nd one at mile 9. But at that point the GU gel tasted too sweet and I tossed it in the trash. I slowed down a little in the last few miles. But I did not bonk. I met my goal of finishing the half marathon in less than 2 hours, something I was unable to accomplish in my first two half marathons.

Six weeks later I attempted my 4th half marathon. I decided to de-emphasize fueling since the GU gels tasted so sweet. At the mile 5 aid station, I tried to slow down, grab a cup of water and drink. I ended up spilling most of the water on my clothes and choking on the water that I did consume. I didn't stop at another aid station for the remainder of the race. I finishing in under 2 hours and got a personal record, this time not slowing down in the final miles of the race.

In the Spring of 2013, about six months later, I attempted my 5th half marathon. This time my plan was to run from the starting line to the finish line with no water, no GU gels, no aid whatsoever until I crossed the finish line. I cut 90 seconds off of my personal record and ran an evenly paced race, using my heart rate monitor as a guide for how fast I should run. I kept my heart rate at about 155 beats per minute during most of the race.

In the Fall of 2013, I got another PR at a half marathon while avoiding consuming any water or gels or food during the race.

So, I truly believe that focusing on aerobic training is more productive than focusing on GU gels or Cliff blocks or sports beans or even pitted dates as a means of fueling during a race. Though, for a full marathon, it seems more attention would have to be paid to fueling issues. But even in a full marathon, where someone like me might be running for 4 to 4.5 hours, fueling could be overemphasized.

My interest is over whether a Maffetone style training method is best, where one engages in only aerobic runs or an Fitzgerald type program where 20 percent of the miles are tempo miles or speed work.

[nonstoppete]

I'm currently training for my 5th marathon in 3 years. Over the winter I used the Maffetone method and ran about 5 hours per week. 3 one hour sessions and 1 two hour session for 4 months using my Maffetone HR of 132. I waited to jump into my marathon plan until the long run was 12 miles (about what I ran every Saturday all winter). During the base building I raced one Half Marathon and one 10K both hitting PR's.

I'm very impressed with the building a bigger base from the aerobic training. Maffetone's latest book "The big book of Endurance Training and Racing" updates his older books and is great except for the food sections

I also read a book called "Advanced Sport Nutrition" by Dan Benardot. I would highly recommend it. He explains the mechanisms that are working in both Sports nutrition and hydration. For example, water with sugar (Gatorade) slows the the emptying of the stomach and can cause cramps and slow absorption while having a carb mix in the water (Hammer's HEED for example) lets it clear the stomach quickly and be absorbed by the small intestine. He also talks about matching the energy consumption over the day with the energy utilization for athletes,i.e. if you train in the morning its better to eat more food sooner in the day than wait for dinner.

I agree that you don't need much nutrition for a half marathon, 1 gel is typically enough for me. I have to watch my hydration because I sweat a lot and have to consume about 16-20 oz per hour. I'm fine for the first hour and often don't take water unless it's more than an hour run. Getting some carbs every hour (whether in a low sugar carb based gel or in whole foods) helps in stomach clearing and increases water absorption.

It's fun being a human experimental laboratory!

[vgpedlr]

I'm currently training for my 5th marathon in 3 years. Over the winter I used the Maffetone method and ran about 5 hours per week. 3 one hour sessions and 1 two hour session for 4 months using my Maffetone HR of 132. I waited to jump into my marathon plan until the long run was 12 miles (about what I ran every Saturday all winter). During the base building I raced one Half Marathon and one 10K both hitting PR's.

Congrats! That's awesome! I love the Maffetone method and talk about it incessantly because I think it is the best way for almost everybody. But talking about it is like talking about this WOE, people don't want to listen. Both are really simple and effective.

Saturday I raced an off road triathlon for 3 hrs. I had a couple of sweet potatoes for breakfast, two Hammer gels during, and a little Gatorade at the finish. Then I had a bowl of mixed berries while I cooked an Asian noodle dish in my bus. Fueling isn't really complicated, but people make it seem so.

I wasn't fast, but I had a great day.

[nonstoppete]

Saturday I raced an off road triathlon for 3 hrs. I had a couple of sweet potatoes for breakfast, two Hammer gels during, and a little Gatorade at the finish. Then I had a bowl of mixed berries while I cooked an Asian noodle dish in my bus. Fueling isn't really complicated, but people make it seem so.

I wasn't fast, but I had a great day.

Sounds like a great day!

I experimented with some energy bars I made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCAPoOGpYLo
Rice/Sweet Potato/Oatmeal/Flax/Chia seeds. They ended up being about 50 calories each so I eat two or three an hour depending on how I feel.

I think I'll go back to hammer gels because they are easy to carry and easy on the digestion.

[ANGELOJ]

I agree - nothing else to add

[vgpedlr]

Sounds like a great day!

Well, except for my wetsuit zipper breaking at the start! Fortunately the water wasn't cold, but I had on a huge drag suit!

I experimented with some energy bars I made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCAPoOGpYLo
Rice/Sweet Potato/Oatmeal/Flax/Chia seeds. They ended up being about 50 calories each so I eat two or three an hour depending on how I feel.

I think I'll go back to hammer gels because they are easy to carry and easy on the digestion.

I love Allen Lim style rice cakes and Japanese onigiri rice balls for training, recipes on my training table blog. I prefer the taste, but they are ore of a hassle to make, and unwrapping the foil isn't often possible off road without stopping. That's why I usually race with Hammer products. I generally digest the gels and Sustained Energy liquid fuel OK. I can't take a hand off the bars for long in a MTB event!

[runonstarch]

I've posted on this before, but I tested it out in two races.

People are way too concerned about pre/post exercise fueling and taking in calories while exercising.

I agree with the pre/post exercise feeding, but I think there's plenty of basis of fueling during long efforts and longer races.

I do both no food and fueling during my weekly long runs (14-16 miles currently) and can tell the difference in how I feel when I don't fuel.

Even while running at Maffetone pace with a HRM I can tell the difference (note, I have stopped running with HRM for past couple months so my longest runs have been based on feel) although higher intensities certainly magnify the bonk and I do agree to an extent that more training will minimize this as I have experienced the fitness bonk you describe even while fueling.

Great thread and discussion.

[Spiral]

I've talked to people who have run in 50K, 50 mile and 100 mile ultra-marathons.

During these events they don't just offer Gatorade and Cliff Blocks. They offer grilled cheese sandwiches, pizza and fried chicken. After all, if one is going to run that long of a distance, one has to be properly fueled. But of course, it would be much better if these races offered their runners baked potatoes at every mile marker.

Personally, I think I would suffer awful GI problems if I tried to run after eating fried chicken.

Now, in my best half marathons, I did not consume anything during the race. It's possible, however, that I could have performed even better in those races had I had some gels and water.

I know some people who say, as if it is scientifically proven, that when running a half marathon, one should consume 1 Cliff Block (preferably with caffeine) every 2 miles. A package of Cliff Blocks contains 6 separate gels. So, you consume one after 2 miles, 4 miles, 6 miles, 8 miles, 10 miles and 12 miles.

I would have a hard time breathing while I try to chew a Cliff Block while I am racing. And then trying to wash it down with water. I'm afraid that doing so would just slow me down more than it would be worth, even if my stomach could handle the Cliff Blocks with no problem at all.

So, I risk it by not consuming anything during many of my races. If I am having a tough day and don't mind taking a walk break or if it's a hot race, I will get some water or Gatorade during the race. I am not very good at drinking on the run. It takes practice, or so I am told.

[Hotmail]

Hi, I agree with building one's fittness, but that takes time, in my case I have to do very high intensity dancing, imagine doing lots of high jumps or squats for a couple of hours... I joined a group and we do perform as well, so during a performance its not possible to stop the show just for me to take a breath, in addition the whole group has to be in synch, so everyone needs to keep the same rhythm so its not like training for running when one if out of fuel can have 2 min break/walk. Lucky the performances are not as long as the actual training for them. On top I need to lose my last 10 to 15lbs, this means I have to run a calorie deficit, I tried exercise on its own for a while and it didn't really work, I sort of lose a couple of lbs then gain them - I know I ate too much of the wrong food so no arguments here... but now am eating the right food, but I am finding am really not able to keep up, this dancing is really important to me, and to my health too... yesterday we performed at a charity event in the evening, I was totally out of energy, no idea why... the only thing I could think of is that am trying this week to keep oats as my base starch, so it would be great if I could just fuel myself just before practice or performance... I must admit in the past my secret to get the buzz was caffeine, either in coffee or tablet form in emergencies like this... sometimes even diet coke... all horrible and bad, I know, and I gave those up as well, but I wish I can find something natural to do the trick....

Can anyone help with this?? Banana perhaps??

[Skip]

I kept my heart rate at about 155 beats per minute during most of the race.

I'm curious, what was your heart rate when training with Maffetone for your races, about 140 - 145 bpm?

Vegpdlr says that he trains at 140-145 and races around 160. I've been training at about 125 bpm for running (I'm older than you guys, 65) and 115 bpm for swimming, so I should race (running race) around 135? If I'm going to race at 135, shouldn't I be doing at least 20% of my training (Fitzgeralds 80/20 thing) in the 135 range to teach my body what it feels like?

Side note, my resting heart rate is very low, below 40 bpm (36 bpm is the lowest I've seen)....

[vgpedlr]

I kept my heart rate at about 155 beats per minute during most of the race.

I'm curious, what was your heart rate when training with Maffetone for your races, about 140 - 145 bpm?

Vegpdlr says that he trains at 140-145 and races around 160. I've been training at about 125 bpm for running (I'm older than you guys, 65) and 115 bpm for swimming, so I should race (running race) around 135? If I'm going to race at 135, shouldn't I be doing at least 20% of my training (Fitzgeralds 80/20 thing) in the 135 range to teach my body what it feels like?

Side note, my resting heart rate is very low, below 40 bpm (36 bpm is the lowest I've seen)....

Maffetone says that you should enjoy your racing, mean go at whatever heart rate you want. Those numbers are examples for me . If it was a short race, like a 10K run or a short mtb xc, I might average 175 bpm. If following a polarized plan like 80/20, then you would design higher intensity workouts based on your goals. Maffetone believes high intensity training is unnecessary and risky, but can be incorporated for a few weeks before a major event.