Strength: exercise program vs age vs results

[GeoffreyLevens]

Just happened on the study below which though small and only one study, certainly explains a lot of my experience. Bottom line of the study findings is that young people i.e.19-30 years old, to gain strength do best by far w/ heavy weight low rep sets (75% of 1 RM) while old geezers 65-75 years old did far better using much less weight (40% 1 RM) high rep scheme. The differences in results were quite large. Clearly there must be some sort of curve of exercise design vs age vs results though since such a small study and because of design there is really no way to know the shape of that curve.

J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci(2012) 67 (11): 1170-1177.doi: 10.1093/gerona/gls141

Muscle Protein Synthetic Responses to Exercise: Effects of Age, Volume, and Intensity

[geo]

Interesting study. Thanks for posting it.

However, in the bigger scheme of things it probably doesn't matter too much.

Here's what I've learned in the last 40 years of reading/studying/doing resistance exercise:

Geo's Secrets to resistance exercise (learned the hard way)

1. Besides there being no real secrets, the MOST important way and ONLY way to gain strength is to use a progressive resistance type of exercise. It doesn't matter whether you lift weights, pull on rubber bands, use hydrolics, lift rocks or tree trunks, swing a big hammer or axe, use barbells/dumbbells/kettlebells/machines/bodyweight or just push against an immovable object. As long as the exercise is progressive, you WILL gain strength and subsiquently add muscle. Thats it. Doesnt matter what weight/resistance level you start at or even how heavy you lift. Doesn't matter what set/rep scheme you use. Doesn't matter how much rest you take between sets or any other of those little details. Give it 15-30 mins a day of work, 2-3 times a week to start.

All that matters is simply to progressively overload your muscles, in any way you desire on a continueing basis, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, for the rest of your life.

2. Feed your body properly, day in and day out, I recommend this program

3. Rest adequately between workouts. Resting is when your strength/muscles grow. Exercise is the stimulous, rest is the growth/over compensation phase. Usually 48-96 hours works well between workouts for most. Some may recover quicker, some slower. You only will know once you've been doing it for awhile.

4.The most important variable to get stronger the fastest (i.e., efficiently and effectively) is intensity. The more intense the exercise, the faster you get stronger, but also the more rest you may need. The harder the work effort, the greater/quicker the gains. But never forget the next tip! The harder you work the more important the next tip becomes!

5. Finally, be safe!!! Learn how to lift properly and what exercises are safe. Never lift dynamically. Smooth, slower movements, without using momentum, is the only way to go with weights for proper safety.

And my final tip, just get off your lazy ass and do it. If you follow the above and work hard every workout, then in 3 to 5 years (yeah, not that long), you will probably reach 90-95% of your genetic potential, not too mention look great, feel great and live a longer, higher quality of life.

Its simple...as long as you dont give up...just like this woe and everything else good in life

[GeoffreyLevens]

Interesting study. Thanks for posting it.

However, in the bigger scheme of things it probably doesn't matter too much.

Mostly totally agree with what you posted BUT this has made a huge difference for me. I actually had just changed my training tactics couple months before finding the article. I was using heavy kettlebells, about 70-80% of my RM1 for swings and Turkish Getups and also bent press. So really grunting it out, 8-10 swings in a set, 1 TGU per side, back and forth for 10 total...did that for about 18 months and before that bodyweight stuff programmed for maximum 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps. Results were constant muscle soreness and almost zero strength gain, progress was glacially slow. I attributed that mostly to my age and secondarily to the fact that my nervous system is a bit fried from having had lyme disease and my sleep is not good.

Recent switch was, synchronously, to just a bit over 40% RM1, doing looooooong sets of clean and jerk, and snatch. Suddenly, most of soreness was gone and very noticeable gains ongoing in both strength/power and endurance.

I can feel it deep down in my nervous system as well. The heavy swings and TGU's work outs while fun and challenging, left me feeing quite "worked". Now for example, yesterday I did 240-250 (lost count HAH!) C&J non-stop in 35 minutes snd felt pumped up and energized in mind and body, could easily have gone on for another 100 or more reps it felt like. Today, a bit sore all over, esp triceps, lower traps, and glutes/hamstrings when I got up but by the time I took shower that was gone and I feel quite ready to do whatever.

[vgpedlr]

Results were constant muscle soreness and almost zero strength gain, progress was glacially slow. I attributed that mostly to my age and secondarily to the fact that my nervous system is a bit fried from having had lyme disease and my sleep is not good.

The effects of different schemes regarding load and intensity are nothing new, but I've never seen age taken into consideration. My first thought is that it would make no difference. But then I thought, why assume that? But I think your experience of CNS fatigue is important. Have you heard of the CNS tap test? It's a test of CNS function done by counting how many times you can tap a pencil or your finger in a set time. Fewer taps shows that the CNS can't fire all the way, independent of muscle soreness from training. Best done with an app on a touch screen. I haven't tried it myself, let me see if I can find a link.

OK, here are a few:

General Wikipedia info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapping_rate
Short Piece by my Favorite Guy, Dan John
https://www.t-nation.com/training/tip-take-the-tapping-test-for-cns-health
StrongFirst Forum thread:
http://www.strongfirst.com/community/threads/finger-tap-test-for-cns.8139/
Example of an App For That
http://smudge.io/cnstaptest/

I'd forgotten about this. I'm going to try it. Since now I'm training primarily strength instead of endurance, it'll be fun to see how different workouts affect CNS function and HRV. In theory, heavy strength training depletes the CNS due to the need to recruit so many muscle fibers, while endurance training does not. If decide to try it, I'd love to hear your experiences.

[GeoffreyLevens]

CNS tap test new to me. The fried nervous system comment made more in relation to the fact that my sleep (and therefore recovery) has been basically terrible since the lyme about 15 years ago. The Dan John article was top of the search when I looked to see what the tap test is before reading rest of your post I have though experienced a dramatic change since changing to a more endurance strength training regime instead of a primarily explosive strength program. Feel much better after workouts for sure but also have suddenly after years of not, making almost daily gains in strength and endurance! Also, appetite is increased and sleep a little better thought still pretty trashed in that department.

[vgpedlr]

Another thought occurred to me on this topic, and yes, it includes more Dan John! Have you heard of his 40 day workout? Your experience with high load training sounded like burnout/overtraining on reflection. Avoiding that while building strength is the point here.

Basically, you choose five basic exercises, and do them every workout, almost every day, for 40 days. Always fairly light, and very low volume: about 10 reps for things like deadlifts, squats, presses etc. 75 or so for things like swings. So, 2x5, 3x3, and some swings. Pavel created it, and DJ ran with it. Also called "Easy Strength" or "Even Easier Strength." Designed in part for serious athletes of other sports and tactical professions (SWAT, spec ops etc.) who need to work on strength without interfering with other training and professional duties.

I'm going to try it after I finish MMS. I'll start a thread on it in case anyone else is interested. Meanwhile, you can check it out here:
http://danjohn.net/2013/12/the-forty-day-workout-again/

Here is forum discussion with success stories:
http://www.davedraper.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/29209/

The book:
https://www.amazon.com/Easy-Strength-Stronger-Competition-Dominate/dp/0938045806/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1482086048&sr=1-1&keywords=easy+strength

[GeoffreyLevens]

I have read Dan's summary posts of Easy Strength and Easier Strength. The workout I was doing before was Pavel's Simple and Sinister which is designed to be low enough stress to be done 5-7 days per week IN ADDITION TO any sports specific training and/or other workout you feel to do. I was doing only that. 10X10 kettlebell swings switching hands for each set and rest between sets until breathing at easy conversational level and feel really ready to go again. Followed by 10 Turkish Get Ups, alternating sides, and again, resting as needed. To me it just felt like 1/2 body weight which was what I could move around with perfect form and control for both those was just too much weight for my nervous system. Esp the TGU's felt like that much time under the weight was a burn out for me

[vgpedlr]

Interesting. It still sounds to me like too high a load. Did you vary the weights used to and different effect? Otherwise, the CNS explanation seems most likely. I just started with the CNS tap test in the morning after my recently resumed HRV tracking. It'll take a few more days to get a baseline to see how different workouts affect it.

What is your current exercise routine?