satiated ?

[catalina1]

jeff , hi , its anthony - when i was @ pritikin and u were still there i remember u agreeing with me that , according to several articles i read , that protiens were the most satiating of the macronutrients , followed by fats , and least by carbs. but according to mcdougall and other advocates of low fat diets , caebs are the most satiating. what gives ? i have to admit , however , that since ive been on a hi starch diet ( mcdougalls ) i have felt very satisfied for hours following meals.

[JeffN]

jeff , hi , its anthony - when i was @ pritikin and u were still there i remember u agreeing with me that , according to several articles i read , that protiens were the most satiating of the macronutrients , followed by fats , and least by carbs. but according to mcdougall and other advocates of low fat diets , caebs are the most satiating. what gives ? i have to admit , however , that since ive been on a hi starch diet ( mcdougalls ) i have felt very satisfied for hours following meals.

Hey Anthony

In studies on isolated nutrients, protein is the most satiating, followed by complex carbs, then sugars and then fats. The thermic effect is also highest in protein, next in carbs, and lowest in fat. That is all true.

But, no one eats isolated nutrients. We all eat food, which is made up of a combination of macro and micro nutrients, water and fiber, and that is where the important difference in.

Over the last 2 decades, there have been many studies on satiety of foods showing that in real life scenario's, eating real foods, bulky foods that are high in water and fiber, are the most filling. And that foods high in fat are the least filling. Refined foods high in white flour and white sugar are also less filling that bulky unrefined carbs.

So, if you take two foods that have the exact same ratios of protein, fat and carb, the one that is the bulkiest will be the most filling.

For example, raisins and grapes have the exact same ratios of protein, carb and fat, yet the grapes are much more filling, per calorie, then the raisins. This is because of the "bulk" in the grapes.

In one of the satiety studies the boiled potato was the most filling food tested, followed by porridge (old fashioned oatmeal).

These starches have also been found to be more filllng than a vegetable based diet.

That is why you are feeling so much more satiated on the McDougall program

Enjoy it!

In Health
Jeff Novick, MS, RD

[Nettie]

In one of the satiety studies the boiled potato was the most filling food tested, followed by porridge (old fashioned oatmeal).

That explains it, then! I can get up from a meal, still feeling hungry, but all I have to do is fix a baked potato and - bam! - I'm full.

I use baked potatoes to cure the walking-around-the-kitchen-still-wanting-something-else cravings. Works every time.

Nettie

[catalina1]

jeff hi its anthony i know weve been thru this many times but today i saw another , article this time from the harvard school of public health , stating that protein whole foods burn more calories than , due to different digestive mechanisms , carbs and fats. have u read this article and what do u think of it ? also are chia seeds considered a grain or a high fat seed ?

[JeffN]

jeff hi its anthony i know weve been thru this many times but today i saw another , article this time from the harvard school of public health , stating that protein whole foods burn more calories than , due to different digestive mechanisms , carbs and fats. have u read this article and what do u think of it ? also are chia seeds considered a grain or a high fat seed ?

Hey Anthony,

Chia seeds, like all seeds, are high in fat and if used, should be used in the same regard as flax and can be used as a substitute. I do not see the benefit or need for them, over flax.

Different macronutrients undergo different digestive processes and there are different enzymes involved in the digestion of different macronutrients. Protein may have a slightly higher TEF, but we do not consume isolated nutrients. We consume diets made up of a combination of the macro-nutrients and we can safely estimate that most all mixed diets average a TEF of 10%. It would take a very extreme diet focused on one macronutrient to effect TEF and even then, the effect would be minimal in regard to the total energy balance. In addition, it would have other negative effects in regard to overall nutrition and health. Focusing on the TEF of micronutrients is really a misguided path as it is a limited view and tries to address an issue with a solution that does not address the real problem. It also does not focus on the total picture of total health, which I know your main goal is.

In Health
Jeff

[prairiedream]

This must explain why the most filling meal for me is potatoes with beans on top. It's the one meal I eat that is guaranteed to satiate my hunger.

Unfortunately, I don't pay attention to my hunger/full signals often enough, and tend to continue eating even after that "full" switch goes off

[JeffN]

This must explain why the most filling meal for me is potatoes with beans on top. It's the one meal I eat that is guaranteed to satiate my hunger.

The most filling food tested in the satiety studies (**per calorie**) was the boiled white potato.

Oatmeal was also very high up there.

In Health
Jeff

[Purdy]

I find "wedding cake" to be the most satiating food I encounter.

Now, I only have it about once every two years, but after eating a plate full I feel like eating nothing else at all for hours.
The first two or three spoonfuls taste wonderful. By the time I finish 2/3's of the plate I am nearly sick of it. It becomes almost nauseating if I try to eat the last bite.

I'm gonna write a new diet "best seller".... The Wedding Cake Diet.....

Here's the basic plan...

1. Unlimited vegetables
2. Wedding cake

Thats it. You can eat as much of either as you please...

[Dragonfly]

[quote="JeffN
Oatmeal was also very high up there.

In Health
Jeff[/quote]

See, this just doesn't make sense for me. Oatmeal will not hold me over for even an hour. I don't add any sugar or sweetener to it. I might add grated apple or dried cranberries to it, but that's it. An hour later, whether I've added those things or not, my stomach is growling and howling at me. What I fix is 1/2 cup oats with 1 cup water. Should be plenty if it's as satisfying as everyone says. Someone once told me that "oatmeal will stick to your ribs! You shouldn't be hungry!" Well, there's the problem. It's sticking to the wrong place!

[JeffN]

Oatmeal will not hold me over for even an hour. I don't add any sugar or sweetener to it. I might add grated apple or dried cranberries to it, but that's it. An hour later, whether I've added those things or not, my stomach is growling and howling at me. What I fix is 1/2 cup oats with 1 cup water. Should be plenty if it's as satisfying as everyone says.

The satiety study compared foods based on equal calories and the results were "relative" to each other.

The calorie value used was 240 which is about 60% more than you are eating.

You way want to try & eat more as I know the amount you are eating would not keep me satiated for long. Also, they used irish (or steel cut) oatmeal which is more satiating that regular/rolled oats.

In Health
Jeff

[Nettie]

[See, this just doesn't make sense for me. Oatmeal will not hold me over for even an hour. I don't add any sugar or sweetener to it. I might add grated apple or dried cranberries to it, but that's it. An hour later, whether I've added those things or not, my stomach is growling and howling at me. What I fix is 1/2 cup oats with 1 cup water. Should be plenty if it's as satisfying as everyone says. Someone once told me that "oatmeal will stick to your ribs! You shouldn't be hungry!" Well, there's the problem. It's sticking to the wrong place!

Dragonfly, I've got the same problem, for some strange reason. I use a heaping 1/2 cup of (steel cut, not rolled) oats, 1-1/2 cups water, plus a cut up banana, 1 tbsp of ground flax seed, and often a couple of cut up strawberries. This is considered 2 servings of oatmeal, 280 calories without the fruit and flaxseed. And yet, an hour later I'm looking for something else to eat. I don't get it.

But I can eat a large potato and I'm satisfied. Mysterious.

Nettie

[serenity]

[quote="Nettie
But I can eat a large potato and I'm satisfied. Mysterious.

Nettie[/quote]

Mysterious, indeed. I'm always envious of the people on this board who say that potatoes are satisfying to them. If I have a baked potatoe, even with toppings like beans, for lunch, I'm hunting for a snack 2 hours later.

I guess we're all different. Good thing that makes the world go round.

[Burgess]

I'm always envious of the people on this board who say that potatoes are satisfying to them. If I have a baked potatoe, even with toppings like beans, for lunch, I'm hunting for a snack 2 hours later.

Perhaps there are two subjects under discussion here:
1. What is satisfying (filling, satiating) at the time of the meal?
2. What keeps hunger away for more than two hours?

They are not necessarily the same. I can fill myself up on fruit and vegetables, but hunger returns in a short time. I can fill myself up on potatoes (or even heavier roots such as sweet potatoes) and hunger returns later than for vegetables alone.

[JeffN]

I'm always envious of the people on this board who say that potatoes are satisfying to them. If I have a baked potatoe, even with toppings like beans, for lunch, I'm hunting for a snack 2 hours later.

Perhaps there are two subjects under discussion here:
1. What is satisfying (filling, satiating) at the time of the meal?
2. What keeps hunger away for more than two hours?

They are not necessarily the same. I can fill myself up on fruit and vegetables, but hunger returns in a short time. I can fill myself up on potatoes (or even heavier roots such as sweet potatoes) and hunger returns later than for vegetables alone.

Thanks. I was just going to explain this and you did a great job.

In the satiety studies, they studied satiety both subjectively (how "full" did you "feel") and objectively (seeing how much food they consumed) and both short term and long term (over 2 hours).

The most filling foods (objectively and subjectively) were the fresh fruits and veggies, but they only produced a short term satiety. People were hungry again very quickly. The potato was the one food that was the most filling (subjectively and obejectively) both short term and long term. Close behind was the porridge (oatmeal) and also w/w pasta. A recent study also showed that the dieters who based their meals on starchy veggies and intact whole grains were more satiated then those who based their meals on fruits/veggies.

One of the reasons for this is due to the type of carbohydrate and its chemical structure. Fruits and veggies digest much quicker, than starchy veggies and whole grains so leave the stomach sooner.

Hunger is not the problem. Hunger is a natural built in survival mechanism. While we may all find some variations in which foods we find the most filling, the principles remain the same and still work. We should all be able to eat untill we are "comfortably" full whenever we are hungry even if this is more often, or less often than others. Just don't "stuff" yourself and don't "starve" yourself.

If you do this and then find you need to gain or lose weight, just adjust the calorie density of the meals a little down or up accordingly.

In Health
Jeff