Depression and Tryptophan and Diet

[Baidarka]

I have begun interacting with this site after nearly a year as a member of the Fuhrman site. During that year, I have completely revamped my diet, and begun eating as he recommends, which as far as I can see is what this site recommends, with the exception of grains, which McDougall seems to be more comfortable with than Dr. Fuhrman. The reason I switched to this plan is because I like grains, and I find them far more satisfying than just the "beans and greens" regime. The morning kale/fruit smoothie made me more hungry, rather than less.

I have a question, and I ask it in the context of having followed the Fuhrman regime with a high degree of commitment for nearly a year. But I have an autoimmune disease of some kind--I have been without insurance until recently--and have severe arthritis throughout my body. I have been using Tramadol and Neurontin, in minimal doses (half the dose prescribed for me, 33 mg Neurontin 3 x a day, and 2 Tramadol, as opposed to four, a day; I also take one Mobic daily), for several years, and I hope to wean off them, but so far have not been able to do so, because they help me to stay at least moderately active. Exercise, with my condition, is extremely difficult, but I try.

I tend to struggle with depression; this has been lifelong, and I realize that the use of these drugs does not help, but I was unable to just go "cold turkey" as Dr. Fuhrman thought I should. Yet the diet alone is not working. Can you offer any suggestions? Perhaps eating more grains, as Dr. McDougall recommends, will help; perhaps not. I would appreciate your suggestions.

In the interests of full disclosure, I will tell you that I have one-two cups of coffee daily, and 1-2 glasses of wine most evenings. No more. Is it possible that I am shooting myself in the foot by not giving up these small indulgences? I hope it is okay to give this much detail here; I am used to the Fuhrman site, where people do go into great detail. Thank you for your suggestions.

[JeffN]

Greetings and welcome to the forum!

I have begun interacting with this site after nearly a year as a member of the Fuhrman site. During that year, I have completely revamped my diet, and begun eating as he recommends, which as far as I can see is what this site recommends, with the exception of grains, which McDougall seems to be more comfortable with than Dr. Fuhrman. The reason I switched to this plan is because I like grains, and I find them far more satisfying than just the "beans and greens" regime. The morning kale/fruit smoothie made me more hungry, rather than less.

Congratulations on all the changes you have made and your commitment to them.

In the satiety studies, which were just discussed in this forum recently, bulky starches such as the boiled potato (which was number one by far) were the single most filling food both short them and long term, both subjectively and objectively, on a per calorie basis. Hence, a starch based diet, fills you up on less calories and/or keeps you fuller on the same calories.

I also take one Mobic daily), for several years, and I hope to wean off them, but so far have not been able to do so, because they help me to stay at least moderately active. Exercise, with my condition, is extremely difficult, but I try.

In relation to medications, these are decisions you have to make for yourself along with the input of a qualified MD who you trust. Sometimes, the benefits outweigh the risks.

I tend to struggle with depression; this has been lifelong, and I realize that the use of these drugs does not help, but I was unable to just go "cold turkey" as Dr. Fuhrman thought I should. Yet the diet alone is not working. Can you offer any suggestions? Perhaps eating more grains, as Dr. McDougall recommends, will help; perhaps not. I would appreciate your suggestions.

The irony here is exercise is one of the best approaches to deal with depressions. If you can be active, in whatever way you can, within your limitations, for at least 30 minutes on 5-6 days a week, it can really help. There is a significant amount of evidence supporting the benefit of exercise for depression.

Also, Dr. Judith Wurtman, who is a clinical researcher at Massachusetts Institute of Technology and the director of the Women’s Health Program at the MIT Clinical Research Center, has studied the link between diet, emotions, and the brain, and have found that fiber-rich, complex carbs like fruits, vegetables, and whole grains, are essential for good mood and optimal mental health.

Wurtman, R. J., and J. J. Wurtman. "Carbohydrates and Depression." Scientific American 1 (1989): 68-75.

Fernstrom, J.D., and Wurtman, R.J. Brain serotonin content: Increase following ingestion of carbohydrate diet. Science, 174:1023-1025, 1971

Also, in a recent survey of 200 people in Great Britain, 88% reported that changing their diet improved their mental health significantly.

The foods most likely to alleviate mood swings, anxiety, and depression included

1) fruits and vegetables,

2) essential fats,

3) whole grains,

4) fiber.

5) Eating regularly and not skipping breakfast also boosted mental health.

Food “stressors” – those foods that negatively affected mood – included...

1) sugar,

2) caffeine,

3) alcohol,

4) gluten,

5) foods rich in saturated fat, such as meat, chocolate, and full-fat dairy products.

In the interests of full disclosure, I will tell you that I have one-two cups of coffee daily, and 1-2 glasses of wine most evenings. No more. Is it possible that I am shooting myself in the foot by not giving up these small indulgences? .

IMH(P&P)O... yes. While both can appear to be of some benefit to you because they can immediately make you feel better, the overall impact if negative and as you can see from the survey above, they were 2 of the 3 biggest factors to be avoided in helping with depression/anxiety. In addition, the 2 glasses of wine a day is above the amount recommended for women and as many studies have shown, can raise the risk of breast cancer. Alcohol also can suppress the immune system.

Also, in regard to your "auto-immune" condition, I would like you to consider one other possibility of why this program may offer you a better chance for improvement. One of the factors that has been shown to increase inflammation and auto-immune disorders is a higher fat diet, especially a diet higher in Omega 6s and with a higher Omega 6/3 ratio.

While "nuts" are a healthy food and can be included in small amounts with no problem, most all nuts are very high in Omega 6s and have a very poor omega 6/3 ratio. These threads will ge into more details on the issue.

viewtopic.php?t=6067

viewtopic.php?t=6678

viewtopic.php?p=46319

Following this program will lower your total fat, your omega 6s and your omega 6/3 ratio.

In addition, I am assuming you are dairy free. If not, that would be very important. Also, it may be of some benefit for you to go "gluten free" in regard to the arthritis.

Again, welcome, and keep up posted.

In Health
Jeff

[momof4]

Regarding depression--there's a good talk about the role of food and how we feel here:
http://www.vsh.org/videos.htm

Go to Dec 2005. The talk is by Neil Nedley, MD, and called, "Nutrition and Mental Performance." I watched it last year and thought he did a really good job.

Best of luck as you move into the very satisfying world of starch-based eating!

[Chumly]

My mild depression and low energy has improved dramatically with following this program and:

at least 1 Tbsp ground flaxseed every day
more regular exercise (I was doing really good with this until last month when I picked up a nasty sinus infection that knocked me down for over 4 weeks, now I'm ramping back up)
Exercise outside in the sun at least 3x per week
Prayer, meditation and abstinance from as much harmful stimuli as I can (sugar, white flour, oil, butter and other refined foods, violent TV, movies and music, etc.)
Healthy social interaction with others

Michael

[Baidarka]

I want to thank all of you for this friendly and supportive reply. You make me feel as if I'm doing well, and can do better, as I know I can. I think I forgot to say that I have, indeed improved dramatically on Dr. F.'s diet, and I will say that although he's pretty fond of nuts, he does say to keep the amount to 1 ounce a day, so that hasn't been too much of a problem.

Also, I have practices meditation for over 35 years, and teach it, as well. I don't think I could get by without it.

It looks to me that the next steps are what I knew they were anyway: give up my coffee and wine, work harder on the exercise (I have no knees to speak of, and much pain in my hands and neck; my doctor things surgery is the way to go, but I have my doubts)... I particularly appreciate not getting "beaten up" over the meds; I hope to let go of them eventually, but I just feel that if they keep me "upright" now, I'm better off. I have tried hard to let them go, but when I do, I end up sitting in a chair and not wanting to get up.

About the meds: I have read--somewhere, I think in the Maker's Diet--that tramadol and other antidepressants rob the gut of serotonin so as to supplement the brain, and in the long run make things worse....that's probably an extremely poor description of what I remember; I am not scientifically-minded, but I'm wondering if anyone knows about this? I have yet to check all the studies offered here, but will do so.

Again, thanks for the friendly greetings and hopeful support!

Baidarka

[Melinda]

I would like to add that I suffered form mild depression at various intervals in my younger years - none for the past 20 years, though. I was a runner from the age of 21 til age 50. I had to quit due to problems with my SI joint becoming "stuck" frequently. I still make regular exercise part of my daily routine, and I truly believe exercise, esp. running, helped with my occasional depression.