Need advice -- Dad eats meat so son wants it too

[Trinity]

Long story short, my husband has made it abundantly clear that he will only eat his way. Last night I had baked a fresh loaf of bread (white whole wheat flour, sugar, salt, water -- from Mary McD's bread maker and recipe) to be ready in time for dinner to have with our pasta. However, my husband preferred delaying dinner for 15 minutes so he could instead bake some frozen cheesy buttery rolls in the toaster oven. Today he came home for lunch and when he walked over and looked at his grilled cheese sizzling in the pan that I hadn't buttered, he got butter (actually, Smart Balance, as if it makes a difference) out of the fridge and spread it on both sides with a spatula.

So I get it. If it were just the two of us, I would happily make him whatever he wanted to eat and eat my own McDougall food. Unfortunately, the problem is our children, and most of all our nearly 4-year-old son. He wants to eat whatever Dad has. I don't really know what to do about this, because of course I want my children to eat healthily. Does anyone have any advice? I also want to add that my husband's father died in May of a heart attack. However, my husband doesn't want to read any of the books I've read, or learn about anything related to it. He thinks he is a healthy eater. I am really frustrated and honestly when I think about my son growing up thinking that it's ok to eat chicken, cheese, etc. on a daily basis is OK, I can start to cry.

Sorry this was so long. Thanks in advance for any comments you folks might have.

[jamietwo]

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I was fortunate that my husband agreed to make the change when I did, so our son has been raised this way from the beginning. I think that's why, as a teen, he is still such a strong proponent of this way of eating. I hope your husband will come on board eventually. Until then, just do the best you can and set your own good example.

[Katydid]

I would take the child to a petting zoo or a farm sanctuary and make sure he understands where his meat and chicken comes from. Let him pet the cows and goats and sheep. Ask him if he thinks its OK to kill and eat them? I was about four when I finally made the connection that a chicken leg was, well, a chicken's leg.
Kate

[JulieS]

I am taking my husband to a Farm Sanctuary in Orland, CA. While he eats what I serve him at dinner (McDougall's program) and appears to love it, as he always has seconds, he still believes that a "little bit of meat/dairy" at other times (when he is away from me) won't hurt him. He also thinks we are supposed to eat meat and that there is nothing wrong with killing animals, so I'm hoping he'll feel empathy for animals after we go on the tour at the Farm Sanctuary. If not, so be it, but at least I try! Besides, I want to go the sanctuary anyway! They have 1 in NY and 2 in CA (Northern & Southern). Here is a link: http://www.farmsanctuary.org/

[Trinity]

Hey everyone,

Thank you so much for your kind replies. I especially appreciate you all writing back because I know this type of thing has been discussed a thousand times already on this board.

First, I am going to make more of an effort to help my son realize where meat comes from. He loves animals, and if he can make the connection, that would be great. We live in South Korea right now (thank you US Army) but I'm sure we'll see some farm animals at some point.

Second, I need to just keep my mouth shut around my husband and let him do his thing while I do mine, and hope I rub off on him

Thanks again and keep the advice coming!

[orangejulius]

Hi, I just wanted to add some encouragement that you may be able to "rub off" on your husband.

I have been together with my significant other for 3 years now. He is open to trying new foods and eating meat-less dishes, but he still loves his hamburgers, etc. My goal has never been to 'force' him into eating healthier like me. However, I always compliment him when he makes healthy choices, and as a result he started asking me what the better "option" is for various things he likes to eat.

For example, when we first started dating, he'd eat PB&J sandwiches for lunch on white bread with trans fat-laden PB. Now he eats whole wheat bread with natural PB. Before he'd buy breakfast cereals he thought were healthy enough but really had tons of sugar; now he buys lower-sugar whole grain cereals. Before he'd eat veggies sometimes if served at a restaurant with his meal but not really make any at home. Now he always has baby carrots with his lunch, eats steamed broccoli, etc as sides at home. Before he'd ALWAYS have beef or chicken for dinner as part of a dish like spaghetti with meat sauce OR something egg-heavy like quiche. Now he eats a dish like that maybe 2-3x week but likes to eat potatoes or brown rice with all kinds of beans for dinner.

I praise him for eating healthy beans & rice instead of beef, but I don't criticize him for eating beef. Also, I emphasize things about beans & rice that appeal to him OTHER than health. For example, he loves that cooking a pot of brown rice and opening a can of beans is so EASY to make and so CHEAP to buy. He loves saving money, getting a good deal, so he relishes these meals more.

I'm hoping some day I can switch him from 2% milk to nondairy milk, things like that, but I have found the best method is to be patient and gradually make gentle suggestions.

[Trinity]

Yes, I think you are right. I need to remember that he is my husband and he does care what I think, so I should be a little more vocal in supporting him for making good eating decisions. Thanks!

[veggylvr]

This may be playing a little dirty, but one issue that helps influence men toward this WOE is their arterial health....especially as it relates to their bedroom performance. Remember in "Forks Over Knives" when the sweet Asian man said that for all the men in Esselstyn's study group, "the flag still flies?" Well, no guys wants to lose that. And, judging by all the ED commercials and popularity of Viagra, a lot of men on SAD do. Doesn't hurt to subtly point that out every chance you get.

[Yippy4Skippy]

Thought I might offer some encouragement here. When I announced to my husband 2 years ago that I wanted to go back to being vegan, he was horrified. At the time I was not following a very healthy vegan lifestlye but it was still a big change from what I'd been doing on the SAD. My husband really pushed back, was very defensive and basically bought and ate his own meaty cheesy junk food while I ate separate meals. I figured that he was his own man and although it was difficult to keep my mouth shut (and sometimes I couldn't control myself!) I tried to leave him alone. Then I watched Forks Over Knives and it changed.my.life. I mean, changed it big time. I realized my vegan diet was really not much better than my husband's SAD. I resolved that then and there I would change. That was about 6-7 months ago and I have been doing great. My PCOS is pretty much gone and I feel better than I did as a college or medical student (and yes, I do now preach this way of eating to all of my patients!) My husband, meanwhile was receptive to helping me eat better at home (he does the vast majority of the cooking) but was still drinking milk, eating cheese and eating crap when we went out. The more exposed he became to the info, however, the harder it was for him to ignore. As I developed not only a passion for this lifestlyle in my personal life but also professionally and he heard the success stories of my patients willing to try it, I think he started to realize that we are not getting any younger and that being naturally thin doesn't equate with healthy arteries! Meanwhile, I made a conscientious effort not to criticize his choices and thanked him profusely for cooking healthy meals for me at home. He discovered that (surprise!) he really loved them. Eventually, one day we were in the grocery store and he said to me, "I'm not getting any more milk. I want to try almond milk instead." I almost passed out in the middle of the dairy aisle!! You have to understand that his father's side of the family was very big on milk and his grandfather was a dairy farmer for the Hershey ice cream dairy for a while. My husband literally drank a gallon of milk every other day. I tried to hide my excitement and just said, "sure, that sounds fine." SInce then he has not had any milk and now tells his friends and family about how great he feels without it. He still eats cheese and meat at times when he goes out but he really does want to change more, I think. He has become a fantastic gourmet whole food plant-based chef! We just attended Plantstock (a FOK weekend at the Esselstyn family farm) for my birthday two weeks ago and he loved it. I think he will continue to make more changes. Yesterday morning he even commented to me about how the "flag rises every morning" now. I just chuckled and said that truly, real men do eat plants! My whole point is this: Try not to hound him. Be a good example for him and for your child. Your son will eventually ask you why you eat differently and you can explain that you enjoy eating that way and feel healthier (just make sure not to diss Dad while doing this). At some point, your husband will not be able to deny the truth anymore. I think he is probably in defense mode with his dad's recent heart attack as my husband was when I first announced I was going vegan. He may come around. Keep the faith and keep setting a great example for your family! Sorry for the long post but I hope this is helpful for you!

[Trinity]

Veggylvr,

You are very right -- if the opportunity comes up I hope to find a way to slide that in. I loved that Asian guy in FOK! Also it was such a surprise to me that ED would be connected with heart disease, but now that I know about it, it makes so much sense and seems so obvious. Thank you for the tip!

Yippy4Skippy,

Thank you for your story, and it really wasn't long, all the details are important. It really helps me to read about other wives whose husbands stayed the same (at least at first) when they decided to start McDougalling (or WFPBing, etc.). That is so great that you are a medical doctor and teach this WOE to your patients! I have been trying to keep my mouth shut around my husband but it is difficult . Also I realized the other night that my son has never noticed that I have never eaten a bite of chicken, etc., based on something he said. But the poor kid is only (almost) 4. I need to be patient and just stick with the program. He'll notice one day! Thanks again, I love reading your story!

P.S. My husband is a cereal junkie (eats it at least twice a day, for breakfast and dessert after dinner), and while he does pour a splash of soy milk on it "for flavor," he insists on using a base of 1%. I would definitely keel over if my husband said something like that to me! Haha!!

[Geeneeus1]

Short Version:
Mumtold me meat was a dead animal, would I want to have a cemetery in my stomach. I did not. Simple and effective

Full Story:
I was raised vegetarian and I remember very early on ( I cannot have been more than 6 or 7), my mum told me we are vegetarian and we don't eat meat. She did this because the school we were enrolled at required all students to eat a hot lunch provided by the school (we couldn't pack lunch). The school did say they would provide a veg lunch but my mum wanted to be sure we adhered because of our religious beliefs.

When I asked why we don't and other people do she told me meat was a dead animal, would I want to have a cemetery in my stomach. I did not. Simple and effective

Much later, my father explained that we do not have the right to take life that we cannot replace. e.g., if one chops a tree, one can plant a new one; if one kills a cow, one cannot grow another cow. Only another cow can.

[JulieS]

You asked for advice, so this is mine. My children are adults now (19 & 23), but if I could turn back time and they were 4 years-old and I knew then what I know now, I would not buy meat & dairy for them. I wish I had known about the health reasons for vegan (WFPB) because I certainly would not participate in the lies the USDA is literally feeding Americans! I think that now is the time to use your parental authority for your 4-year old son's health. As a 4-year-old, he is not equipped to make his own decisions based on nutrition and health. Maybe ask yourself why you are afraid to have the right to make this decision for your son. His diet is no different than any other safety precaution you have for him. You make sure he has enough sleep. You don't let him stay up at night as late as his father does or have a drink of alcohol if his father does. I understand your hesitancy around your husband, but don't get it with your son.

[Trinity]

Geeneeus,

You have a very interesting story -- I like those lines about having a cemetery in your stomach and not being able to replace a cow. I'm going to remember those for the future. Thanks!

Julie,

You make a good point. My hesitancy lies in the fact is that he's not only my son, he's my husband's son, too. I love and respect my husband, and so at dinner when he offers my son some chicken, I'm not going to say, "No, he can't have that," and start an argument we've had many times before. But you're right -- I did ask for advice, and I like the way you put it: I don't let him do other unhealthy things, so why should I let him eat meat? You've definitely given me some food for thought (ha) -- thank you.

EDIT: Oops, didn't mean to "bump" this topic. Sorry about that!

[Trinity]

Update:

We have had meatless dinners for nearly a month now (with one exception of scallops, which my husband had after the kids went to bed)! Thanks to all for your support and to JulieS for giving me the kick in the behind I needed. I would love it if everyone would continue to share stories of how their families function with respect to McDougalling...whether here or in the "Spouses or Significant Others Share McDougall Lifestyle?" thread.

[PeripateticDanielle]

Wow, how lucky to be in South Korea! It's one of the places on my list to visit.

And congratulations on having a month of meatless dinners! I am curious as to how that happened, meaning what changed in your husband's outlook. It sounds like he's done a complete turnaround, enough so that he's 'hiding' his scallops habit from your children

My husband was a vegetarian when we met, as was I. We weren't the healthiest vegetarians, nor were we the unhealthiest. Since we adopted the McDougall diet eight months ago I've felt so much better. I was the one who decided to start this diet (diet as in way of eating as opposed to restrictive) and he joined me 90% wholeheartedly, meaning he'll still have the occasional pastry or milk chocolate. He just recently got a lipid panel and I think his cholestorol level being still in the 190's has made him rethink his occasional, or perhaps more than occasional, treat. His cholestorol has gone down from the low 200's, but not as much as he'd like. Maybe this type of visible health benefit can also work with your husband, if he has any health concerns.

Have a happy overseas Thanksgiving!