Dr. McDougall's Online Discussion Board

I saw the Forks Over Knives e-mail today (link below) and went to the podcast.
I get the impression that Dr. Barnard says that it's much better (less harmful) than other oils, but I didn't see where he addressed the part about it supposedly having health benefits - kind of like a magical oil. I am guessing that it doesn't have them, and that it's just less bad.
Any thoughts?

https://www.forksoverknives.com/wellnes ... %3D.KCHNEa

Maybe I am missing exactly what you are asking but from reading that it seems nothing has changed?
Barnard states like all the WFPB Drs I am aware of that olive oil is better than lard or butter etc but that the best course of action is always zero.

Edited to add the quote from Barnard that seems to address what you are asking: “The researchers have tried to make the case that there’s something magical in olive oil. And there are various plant constituents, just as there are in broccoli and sweet potatoes. However the big issue seems to be you’re not eating the animal fat anymore,” Barnard added.

" However the big issue seems to be you’re not eating the animal fat anymore,” Barnard added. I don't know what he means. If you're not eating animal fat, that would be a fact and not an issue.

My confusion comes from determining whether or not olive oil actually improves health and extends live, or if it is just less bad than the other fats. I didn't really get that answer from the podcast. I have no problem not using olive oil, but if I am missing out on a health benefit, that wouldn't be good.

I know that Dr. McDougall is against the consumption of ANY kind of oil. That's good enough for me.

DenverGuy wrote:
My confusion comes from determining whether or not olive oil actually improves health and extends live, or if it is just less bad than the other fats. I didn't really get that answer from the podcast. I have no problem not using olive oil, but if I am missing out on a health benefit, that wouldn't be good.

My takeaway from the article you linked (I haven't listened to the podcast) is definitely that there are no inherent good qualities in olive oil, it is just the lesser evil. Bad=animal fats and hydrogenated vegetable fats. Better = olive oil. Best = no oil
To me it reads like smoking 2 cigarettes a day is better than smoking 20. That doesn't mean you should start smoking 2 a day if you are a non-smoker.

Apart from anything else oil is highly refined, and I don't think there is anything in the oil you would benefit from that you wouldn't get in greater quantity from eating the olive itself if you had no objections to adding higher fat items to your diet.

I agree. But this is the paragraph that threw me off:

"After adjusting for known risk factors and other dietary factors, researchers found that participants who consumed more than a half tablespoon a day of olive oil were 19 percent less likely to die of cardiovascular disease and all other causes. They were 29 percent less likely to die of neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer’s, 17 percent less likely to die of cancer, and 18 percent less likely to die of respiratory disease compared with those who never or rarely consumed olive oil."

DenverGuy wrote:I agree. But this is the paragraph that threw me off:

"After adjusting for known risk factors and other dietary factors, researchers found that participants who consumed more than a half tablespoon a day of olive oil were 19 percent less likely to die of cardiovascular disease and all other causes. They were 29 percent less likely to die of neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer’s, 17 percent less likely to die of cancer, and 18 percent less likely to die of respiratory disease compared with those who never or rarely consumed olive oil."

I think the answers are there. The problem is that the part you quote does not in any way details HOW they adjusted and what those factors are. Further on in the article these things stand out:

“Our findings confirm current dietary recommendations to replace animal fats with plant oils for the prevention of chronic diseases and premature death,” said the study’s lead author, Marta Guasch-Ferré

and

the Harvard study analyzed death rates based on different types of added fat in the diet. They did not examine the benefits of a diet with little or no added oil.

RacingSnake108 wrote:

DenverGuy wrote:I agree. But this is the paragraph that threw me off:

"After adjusting for known risk factors and other dietary factors, researchers found that participants who consumed more than a half tablespoon a day of olive oil were 19 percent less likely to die of cardiovascular disease and all other causes. They were 29 percent less likely to die of neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer’s, 17 percent less likely to die of cancer, and 18 percent less likely to die of respiratory disease compared with those who never or rarely consumed olive oil."

I think the answers are there. The problem is that the part you quote does not in any way details HOW they adjusted and what those factors are. Further on in the article these things stand out:

“Our findings confirm current dietary recommendations to replace animal fats with plant oils for the prevention of chronic diseases and premature death,” said the study’s lead author, Marta Guasch-Ferré

and

the Harvard study analyzed death rates based on different types of added fat in the diet. They did not examine the benefits of a diet with little or no added oil.

I’ve been covering this in my lectures for over 30 years. It the same message that first came out in 1961 from the AHA advisory committee. It is based on the "substitution" effect (substituting something less harmful for something more harmful).

https://sci-hub.se/10.1001/jama.1961.63040050001011

In Conclusion—The reduction or control of fat consumption under medical supervision, with reasonable substitution of poly-unsaturated for saturated fats, is recommended as a possible means of preventing atherosclerosis and decreasing the risk of heart attacks and strokes.


Lets put that in perspective:

1) If someone was including butter (60% saturated fat) or coconut oil (90% saturated fat) and replace it with olive oil (14% Saturated fat), keeping all else the same, what happens to their cholesterol level?

Yes, it may go down somewhat but does that make it “healthy”

No. Just less harmful


2) Olive oil is 14% Saturated Fat
The typical American diet is 11-12% saturated fat
The AHA/ACC recommends reducing saturated fat to </= 6%.

How much of something 14% saturated fat can you add to something that is already 11-12% saturated fat to get it below 6%?

None!

Yes, you can reduce it somewhat if it is substituted for something with a higher precent saturated fat, but not enough to make a big difference.

Again, less harmful but not healthy.


3) Now in reverse

A healthy McDougall style diet is around 3-5% or less saturated fat in their diet.
If they add olive oil which is 14% Saturated fat, will their percent saturated fat stay the same or go up?

It will go up pretty fast as does their risk.


In Health
Jeff

Olive oil unhealthy? By pure accident I discovered this week how easily the health risks caused by the consumption of olive oil can be eliminated or reduced: I had made a little too much vinaigrette (a blend of crushed garlic with a little salt mixed with wine vinegar and olive oil) for my fattouche (a delicious Lebanese salad) and put the excess in the fridge. the next day I noticed that a layer of solidified fat had formed on the vinaigrette: the so-called saturated fat (14%) from the olive oil. With a skimmer I scooped out the fat and what remained was a vinaigrette consisting entirely of poly- and mono-fatty acids. Is this genius or not?

Saturated fat is only one of the several issues. And, you are assuming you are getting all of the saturated fat.

https://www.drmcdougallforums.com/viewt ... 6&#p317386

I always think of this video when I see this question - Dr. Klaper on olive oil:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGGQxJLuVjg