Muscle pain with aging on this diet

[Willijan]

I would like to hear from people on the McDougall Diet, especially those in their sixties or better yet, older, on the topic of muscle pain.

For the last 3 weeks I have had greatly increased, and widespread muscle pain. It started immediately after I quit taking a psychiatric medication, with my doctor's approval.

I think the pain is due to quitting the medication. My doctor agrees, but he is also saying that this pain is due to "getting old."

I really don't see any reason to think that, especially given that I have been on the McD Diet for 4 to 5 years.

I would like to know the experience of people who have experienced being 60 or older on this diet. Also, I would like to hear from people who are expert on this diet and its effect on physical abilities as we age.

It is very discouraging to have so much pain, and according to my doctor it is normal for one of my age (67), although he says I am doing better than others my age.

Up until three weeks ago I did at least an hour of moderate yoga almost every day, went on frequent walks and worked out on the treadmill and with a BOSU ball. I also spend a lot of time cooking and doing housework. Now, I have quit almost all workouts except I have restarted yoga. And of course I still do the cooking.

Can anyone help me with information on this? Thank you.

[chrisv]

My answer is as a 65 yo with no medical training, after checking with Dr. Google. It seems age can cause muscles to be more easily strained or fatigued, like you are a long time tennis player, but now you are a bit more sore after a game. But suddenly having muscle pain all over is not a usual symptom of age. It is a symptom of polymyalgia rheumatica, which I don't know how common that is, but if it does not go away I would keep looking for answers. I hope someone else weighs in, there are many 60's and older on this board.

[Lisaanneb]

Which psych med have you stopped ?

[Willijan]

chrisv: Thanks for your answer.

For this topic, I am not that influenced by most of the information on Google. Very little of it takes into account the effects of eating a healthy diet. As we know from reading Dr. McDougall, T. Colin Campbell, Caldwell Esselstein, Dean Ornish, etc., eating this way makes a big difference in health outcomes. What I am trying to find out is specifically what effect this diet has on muscle pain and aging, information that is harder to come by.

I did Google this topic and found information on polymyalgia rheumatica, however it sounds like an unlikely diagnosis for me. For one thing, I have never had any indication of peripheral vascular problems. Long ago, when I thought I might, a doctor who knew me well just looked at my leg, said something about what she saw, and laughed at the idea I had it.

I am, or perhaps only was until the last few weeks, in very good aerobic shape and do not tire easily. I am far from your typical 67 year old in terms of physical ability. Strangers make comments on it.

So, that is why I am hoping to talk to someone "older" who has experience on this diet and can tell me about this topic, or to someone with expert knowledge of this diet and its effects on muscle pain with aging.

[MINNIE]

I have no medical training, and I can't tell you why this is happening. I do think that I would to to a doctor for a second opinion, preferably a sports medicine doc. As you have been so physically active, and want to be able to exercise safely in the future, perhaps someone who with specific expertise can help you get a real diagnosis of what is happening. They can also rule out things that you may be unnecessarily worried about.

I definitely do not think you - or anyone - should accept the "oh, you're just getting older" brush off!

For whatever it is worth, I am turning 70 in a few weeks. I am a life-long exercise fanatic/enthusiast (depending on your point of view).

I have been doing the McDougall plan for almost four years. I can't think of any negative effects from the food, (but that's just my experience - not yours). Until recently I didn't have any history of muscle pain, other than the normal temporary kind of soreness after strenuous workouts. Actually, I rarely had much muscle soreness even after that, unless there was some unusual circumstance.

However, a few years ago I did start getting persistent soreness in one shoulder. I had been doing weight training/body building exercises for most of my life, and was still training much the same way I did in my 30's. It turned out that this was not appropriate for me now, but I had to go on a bit of a quest to find out why .

After telling one doctor, who gave me the old "you are old" diagnosis, I eventually went to a sports medicine specialist. He found that it was a frozen shoulder, with some arthritis in the shoulder joint as well. Both of these could be addressed with simple home treatment and physical therapy. I went to a good physical therapist who who explained the ways I should modify some of my exercise habits to avoid causing further problems. She taught me safer ways to do strength training, and showed me where I had been using incorrect form - which had probably caused at least some of my problems.

I am now pretty much pain free, and will continue to do my exercises in the improved way i was shown. I see no reason to ever stop exercising, as long as I can move.

I realize that this is not very relevant to your situation, which is more complicated than mine. But I wanted to make the point that you shouldn't give up trying to find an answer.

It may take some searching to find a doctor or other provider who will be able to help, and who doesn't have negative stereotypes about aging. But it's better than accepting a lowered quality of life if you don't really have to.

Possibly it will turn out that this is related to your medication, but it may be due to something completely different. The only way to know is to get a good exam and diagnosis.

I hope you will be able to solve this problem and enjoy the blessings of improved health:).

[Hal]

Could be a coincidence but when i had a similar thing a couple years ago, i decided to try eating a few leaves of Tuscan black kale blended with ripe banana and water to make a kale shake - choked it down - and less than four hours later i was feeling a miraculous relief, so kept up with this every day and whatever it was disappeared in a couple of weeks. Now, for the last year or so have a kale shake once a week or so, and whatever it was hasn't returned. We're all different but it might be worth a try. Good luck, and keep us informed with your progress, Willijan.

[Lesliec1]

It started immediately after I quit taking a psychiatric medication, with my doctor's approval.

I think the pain is due to quitting the medication.

This seems like the obvious starting point. What medication? Sometimes googling it won't tell you about side effects after stopping it. You usually just find the "standard listed side effects." I would try to search for message boards where real people talk about side effects. When my mother had suspicions about a med and side effects, I found that message boards were the only place that gave me some insight. Maybe it's as simple as your doctor not stopping correctly or not weaning you off, etc.

[MINNIE]

Hal, that is interesting.

This isn't scientific, but I also noticed that kale seems to relieve muscle pain. By chance I had a flare-up of shoulder pain after exercise, and also happened to eat a big handful of raw baby kale leaves right after the symptom started. Within a few minutes the pain subsided, although it normally would take several hours, at least, for the pain to die down.

I didn't think it was related until it happened again. Again, I ate raw kale with nothing else. Then I tried it a few more times in a spirit of inquiry.

My( totally amateur and unscientific) "experiment" was to eat kale if the shoulder ache flared up, and eat nothing else with it to rule out other foods. (I didn't take any pain medications either, having decided that I would try to find a more naturaI path to dealing with muscle pain). Kale always seemed to work, and very quickly too. I tried other raw greens and nothing happened (except that they tasted good LOL).

I told my physical therapist and she said she didn't know of any research that supported pain-relieving properties of kale. But eating kale was a good thing anyway so there was no harm in doing it.

I am not claiming this anecdote proves anything, but kale seems to work for me .

[flowerblue]

Minnie, how much kale would you eat . I'd like try it, see if it would work for me.

[MINNIE]

Well, I didn't really measure but normally I just grab a big handful of raw baby kale.

If I'm eating cooked kale (which also seems to help) it's a normal (for me) serving . I don't think you can pin down an amount, so I suggest just eating whatever you feel is a normal serving for you, and see if anything happens.

I do hope it helps:).

[flowerblue]

Thank you Minnie. I will give it a try.

[Willijan]

Minnie,

Both of your posts were very helpful.
I have tried kale for the last three days, and it seems to work almost immediately.
The first two days I ate a normal sized portion (like a small salad size?) raw. The first time it took me 10 minutes to eat it and by the time I finished it, my lower back didn't hurt anymore.
Today I ate some raw, and now I am eating some cooked with other vegetables. Again, the lower back pain improved very quickly.
I made a delicious kale and bean soup today, which I will post in a foods thread.
Thanks for this great idea.

As far as my pain, I have had lower back pain since childhood if I stood for a long time. I stand a lot now, because I cook a lot. I do have some yoga poses that help with that if I do them right after cooking. The problem is, when I do those yoga poses I contract other muscles --shoulders-- in order to do them. Then my shoulders hurt for days. As far as I can tell, right now that shoulder pain never goes away. I have been doing the back poses for many weeks, and the shoulders never adjust to it.

I am thrilled to have found your idea with kale works for some of my pain.

You mentioned I believe that you have never had any issues with any foods on the diet. Neither have I. I am totally satisfied with the diet, and I am convinced it is the one best for people's health. I do not think it is causing my pain.

[Willijan]

Re: Muscle pain with aging on this diet

Postby Hal » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:16 pm

Could be a coincidence but when i had a similar thing a couple years ago, i decided to try eating a few leaves of Tuscan black kale blended with ripe banana and water to make a kale shake - choked it down - and less than four hours later i was feeling a miraculous relief, so kept up with this every day and whatever it was disappeared in a couple of weeks. Now, for the last year or so have a kale shake once a week or so, and whatever it was hasn't returned. We're all different but it might be worth a try. Good luck, and keep us informed with your progress, Willijan




Thanks, Hal! Because of your post and Minnie's, I tried kale. It seems to work! Not on all of my muscle pain so far, but on some.

However, I am not going to be having a kale smoothie! Green smoothies sound really awful to me. I am just eating raw or cooked kale. I am impressed you can "choke it down."

[Willijan]

Re: Muscle pain with aging on this diet

Postby Lesliec1 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:44 am




— Willijan wrote:
It started immediately after I quit taking a psychiatric medication, with my doctor's approval.

I think the pain is due to quitting the medication.


--Lesliec1 wrote:
This seems like the obvious starting point. What medication? Sometimes googling it won't tell you about side effects after stopping it. You usually just find the "standard listed side effects." I would try to search for message boards where real people talk about side effects. When my mother had suspicions about a med and side effects, I found that message boards were the only place that gave me some insight. Maybe it's as simple as your doctor not stopping correctly or not weaning you off, etc.



Lesliec1: Thank you for your post. I totally agree with you, and I have done that. I found "real people on message boards" very helpful on this. For instance, they noted that going off my med could cause knee pain and foot pain, and said, "There is nothing wrong with your knees." This was very calming, as I do have knee pain (which I have never had before) and although I have had foot pain before (I have flat feet and bunions), it has never been nearly this bad or persistent.

I have found with other medical problems that the best information usually comes from "real people on messge boards", just as you have. It says a lot about our medical system that the doctors don't know or don't tell you these things.

I am not talking (yet?) about what medication I was taking. I have anxiety and depression, and this drug was the most helpful I have ever had. I have tried one or two dozen different medications for this. I have had these problems since early childhood, and began therapy my freshman year in college. Mostly, none of it helped much at all. This drug did. But it made me have a weird kind of fatigue, and then when I went off it I got hit with these muscle problems.

I was taking 1/2 of the smallest dose available. When I looked at the message boards, people there were having difficulty GETTING DOWN to the smallest dose I ever took. I have always been hyper-sensitive to medications. And I did go down gradually

Writing on a public board, I don't want to say what the drug is. I am very self-conscious, and I will worry about what people think for years, even if I have never met any of you. Plus people are very prejudiced, and I don't want to have to explain myself for hundreds of posts.

But you are right on your post.

[Mayflowers]

Sounds to me like you're having withdrawal symptoms from getting off a psych med.