Another response
I don't know if you see these but in these articles, Dr. Colin Campbell also builds the case for the argument that we should focus on a whole plant food diet and stop looking at micro and macro nutrients
Nutrition and Cancer Journal, Jun 2017
The Past, Present, and Future of Nutrition and Cancer: Part 1—Was A Nutritional Association Acknowledged a Century Ago?
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10. ... 17.1317823Nutrition and Cancer Journal, Jul 2017
Nutrition and Cancer: An Historical Perspective.—The Past, Present, and Future of Nutrition and Cancer. Part 2. Misunderstanding and Ignoring Nutrition
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10. ... 17.1339094In this one, which came out around the same time, he explains that dietary protein correlates more closely than fat for heart disease, that this has been known for a long time and that it is essentially ignored because it is not convenient.
Journal of Geriatric Cardiology, May 2017
A plant-based diet and animal protein: questioning dietary fat and considering animal protein as the main cause of heart disease
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5466939/Your response?
Thanks. I read those when they came out and think they do add to the discussion, but by adding more support to my perspective.
First, let me address the third article you posted, which actually came out just before the other two.
Of course animal protein is similarly correlated as saturated fat, the two almost always come in the same package, animal food. However, when we try to separate them out to study the impact individually, the results really point more to saturated fat, which many think has one of the strongest correlations to LDL and to heart disease, than to animal protein.
From the third linked article
"In examining nutritional effects on the development of cardiovascular diseases, one must recognize the totality or ‘wholeness’ effect, as in a whole food plant-based dietary lifestyle. The comprehensiveness of evidence now available suggests that there is no other protocol—dietary or non-dietary—that offers the same health benefits. Perhaps the best testimonial for this whole food effect is its reversal of coronary heart disease during its advanced stages of development.[68–71] The most recent of these studies[71] included 196 patients, 177 who complied with the dietary advice. In 2–7 years, only one of the patients who complied suffered an event; in contrast, 62% of the non-compliant patients suffered an event. I am not aware of a single other cardio-therapy protocol that approximates such spectacular results."There are 4 references cited...
68 Ornish D, Brown SE, Scherwitz LW, et al. Can lifestyle changes reverse coronary heart disease? Lancet 1990; 336:129–133.
69 Gould KL, Ornish D, Scherwitz L, et al. Changes in myocardial perfusion abnormalities by positron emission tomography after long-term, intense risk factor modification. JAMA 1995; 274: 894–901.
70 Esselstyn CB, Ellis SG, Medendorp SV, et al. A strategy to arrest and reverse coronary artery disease: a 5-year longitudinal study of a single physician's practice. J Fam Pract 1995; 41: 560–568.
71 Esselstyn CBJ, Gendy G, Doyle J, et al. A way to reverse CAD? J Fam Pract 2014; 63: 356–364.
As you can see, two of the references are to the Esselstyn program and two are to the Ornish program so we have the exact same situation here as I pointed out above in regard to the 'wholeness' effect. These studies did not use any WFPB diet but one with specific modifications and restrictions including the restriction of fat, saturated fat, cholesterol and the avoidance of high fat plant foods.
In regard to supporting the contention that animal protein is the main cause of heart disease and not fat and saturated fat, 3 of the 4 studies allowed the use of animal protein but limited fat and saturated fat. Therefore, they actually did the experiment by keeping both fat and saturated fat to very low levels and allowed for animal protein that was free of, or very low in, fat and saturated fat. In addition, in the cited Ornish and Esselstyn studies, the allowed animal protein was mostly fat-free dairy, which contains casein as the main source of the protein.
In addition, while not referenced in the articles, the Pritikin Program, which has produced similar results in regard to heart disease, also limited fat and saturated fat to very low levels and not only allowed non-fat dairy, but also allowed for limited amounts of animal flesh low in fat and saturated fat.
In addition, in reference 69, we see the name Gould, KL, which is Lance Gould. He worked with Dr Ornish early on and then went on to establish his own reversal program in Texas, which also limited total fat to </=10% and limited saturated dat. However, he also allowed more servings of animal protein low in fat and saturated fat, which I wrote about here.
https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/view ... 83#p567783All of these results point more to fat and saturated fat rather then animal protein as the problem. I covered this issue before showing the many concerns there are with saturated fat in these 2 articles. These concerns and my position still stands. If you have not read this before, I encourage you to read them now. Saturated fat is not benign.
Saturated Fat: Still Unhealthy After All These Years, Pt 1
https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/view ... 22&t=45911Saturated Fat: Still Unhealthy After All These Years, Pt 2
http://www.jeffnovick.com/RD/Articles/E ... Years.htmlSo, I don't see how any of these point to animal protein as the main cause of heart disease, or that just any WFBP diet can reverse heart disease and produce other "dramatic" results.
Now, in regard to the other two articles and all three together.
- I think we all agree that whole foods are superior and sometimes you can't separate the whole from its parts, but sometimes you can and both aspects play a role.
- If one is going to make the case that focusing on fat and saturated fat as a cause of disease is considered reductionism, then switching the focus to animal protein as the cause of disease is also reductionism.
- I think Dr Fontana’s more recent work on cancer, protein, animal protein and specifically casein come to different conclusions then Dr Campbells older work and must be considered. I discuss his recent work in my first post in this thread here...
https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/view ... 22&t=40765- Clearly there has been far too much reductionist thinking over the last 50 years trying to take food apart to all its components.
- While the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, sometimes the parts matter. Focusing on the bigger picture, a diet based predominately on minimally processed plants and low in added salt, sugar and oil, is most important. However sometimes, to experience the true health benefits of the WFPB dietary lifestyle, the details matter.
- More importantly, lets not let the pendulum swing so far the other way that people think there's something "magical” about the WFPB dietary pattern rather than the actual known science-based reasons (i.e., reduced calorie absorption from whole plant foods, lower calorie density, lower fat, lower saturated fat, higher fiber, phytochemicals, etc ) of why whole plant foods are beneficial.
In Health
Jeff