Greetings From Dr. Fuhrman

[Veg4life]

If Dr. Fuhrman was as good of a friend of Jeff Novick's as he claims, he would have deleted the disrespectful buffoon post instead of just leaving it there. Like attracts like, and he allows his members to post inflammatory remarks about his colleagues. There was a thread called "Dr. Oz is an Asshole". Guess he's not an asshole anymore now that he is a guest on his show. And what about the repeated attacks on Dr. McDougall and Essestyn's character calling them "ego-based"? Not to mention all of the rude attacks on Dr. Barnard. After the years of abuse, frankly, I'm surprised his colleagues did not stand up to him sooner. Oh wait, but they have class.

[Debbie]

If Dr. Fuhrman was as good of a friend of Jeff Novick's as he claims, he would have deleted the disrespectful buffoon post instead of just leaving it there. Like attracts like, and he allows his members to post inflammatory remarks about his colleagues. There was a thread called "Dr. Oz is an Asshole". Guess he's not an asshole anymore now that he is a guest on his show. And what about the repeated attacks on Dr. McDougall and Essestyn's character calling them "ego-based"? Not to mention all of the rude attacks on Dr. Barnard. After the years of abuse, frankly, I'm surprised his colleagues did not stand up to him sooner. Oh wait, but they have class.

He is on Dr. Oz again this coming Tuesday. Its called has this doctor found the fountain of youth.

[rijman]

I went to the Dr. Fuhrman website, for the first time ever, to check out the forums and see how this whole Fuhrman apology tour is playing out there, but I couldn't get in without paying. To be a view only member of the forums the cost is $11.85 then $3.95/mo. or $39.95/yr. To view and post in the forums the cost is $29.85 then $9.95/mo or $99.50/yr. I decided not to join his forums.

[Adam1984]

If Dr. Fuhrman was as good of a friend of Jeff Novick's as he claims, he would have deleted the disrespectful buffoon post instead of just leaving it there. Like attracts like, and he allows his members to post inflammatory remarks about his colleagues. There was a thread called "Dr. Oz is an Asshole". Guess he's not an asshole anymore now that he is a guest on his show. And what about the repeated attacks on Dr. McDougall and Essestyn's character calling them "ego-based"? Not to mention all of the rude attacks on Dr. Barnard. After the years of abuse, frankly, I'm surprised his colleagues did not stand up to him sooner. Oh wait, but they have class.

Very well said!

[athirdpage]

Dr. McDougall does not need to be defended nor does Dr. Fuhrman. We are all on the same path. Peace.

[Waingapu]

Lots of energy wasted trying make sure "everyone else" is perfect.

[Hazel3]

I appreciate what I've learned from Dr. McDougall and Dr. Fuhrman as well as the others mentioned here.

It seems to me that when someone decides they have THE answer -they soon close their minds to other possibilities. There is always something new we can learn. It can possibly change the answer. It's not about one or the other. It's about nutrition, health, flavor and finding this by eating a plant-based diet. Agree to disagree about the nuances and get on with living a healthy life using the information you find most beneficial for your needs.

For me, it's high nutrient plant-strong eating, 1 oz raw nuts/seeds and plenty of whole starches and no animal products. I have found DHA and EPA to be helpful as well as B12 and Vitamin D. It's what I find works for me and pulls together the best from what I've learned from Dr. Fuhrman and Dr. McDougall. It's what seems to be working for me. It may not be the same as what you choose. Who cares? I'm just so darn grateful to both of them and what they've taught me, how much it is helping. How lucky I am to have both of these doctors' and others amazing resources. What a great time to get and stay healthy!

It seems like a dandy time to let go of the nastiness and move ahead in peace and good health. Enough already.

[Lasko77]

I appreciate what I've learned from Dr. McDougall and Dr. Fuhrman as well as the others mentioned here.

It seems to me that when someone decides they have THE answer -they soon close their minds to other possibilities. There is always something new we can learn. It can possibly change the answer. It's not about one or the other. It's about nutrition, health, flavor and finding this by eating a plant-based diet. Agree to disagree about the nuances and get on with living a healthy life using the information you find most beneficial for your needs.

For me, it's high nutrient plant-strong eating, 1 oz raw nuts/seeds and plenty of whole starches and no animal products. I have found DHA and EPA to be helpful as well as B12 and Vitamin D. It's what I find works for me and pulls together the best from what I've learned from Dr. Fuhrman and Dr. McDougall. It's what seems to be working for me. It may not be the same as what you choose. Who cares? I'm just so darn grateful to both of them and what they've taught me, how much it is helping. How lucky I am to have both of these doctors' and others amazing resources. What a great time to get and stay healthy!

It seems like a dandy time to let go of the nastiness and move ahead in peace and good health. Enough already.

YES! ^this

[Veg4life]

"It is clear and not controversial that Jeff is on the payroll of Dr. McDougall and intentionally distorts my work to protect and promote Dr. McDougall. If Jeff wanted to be fair he would ask me to respond, and post my response, or check with me for the accuracy of his response. Obviously, that is not his purpose there. The nut argument is so ridiculous and distorted to be just stupid."

This was a post about Jeff Novick by Dr. Fuhrman cut and pasted directly from his website.

[ParsleyPatch]

The "silly" comment, probably not Dr.Fuhrman's finest moment, especially since it left so much open to misinterpretation and seemed somewhat condescending.

"Somewhat" condescending? How about plain condescending?

Regarding the quagmire of complexity; clearly not everyone sees it that way, and do appreciate the new level of detail, and a new way of seeing things that many of us enjoy learning and understanding.

Yes, but complexity is not necessary to be successful on a starch-based diet with the addition of fruits and vegetables. Dr. McDougall provides plenty of details for those who want it in his many books and other sources. But I'll wager that presenting a plant-based diet as complex at the outset, with macro- and micro- nutrients, vitamins, minerals, fats, proteins, "nutritarianism," and on and on, has discouraged many a potential candidate for help when all they needed to do was just eat plenty of starches, fruits, and vegetables.

[veggylvr]

As I see it the problem is not that Dr. Fuhrman disagrees with McDougall, (Esselstyn, Campbell, Barnard, Ornish, Pritikin, Kempner, and all verifiable disease prevention and reversal in the scientific literature), but rather that he has outright ridiculed, insulted, and disrespected them/it.

This is the core problem that must be addressed and rectified in order to put this issue to sleep in a way that will allow everyone to move on.

I think we’ve gotten as much as we can expect from Dr. Fuhrman. Like I said in a previous thread, I doubted he would outright admit to doing anything unethical, as that would be professional suicide.

The most we could've hoped for is that he would strike a more conciliatory tone towards his peers, and, to his credit, that is exactly what he’s done. Doing so in a public forum is an admission that he's fully aware of the disrespectful comments he's made, therefore, we don't need to debate that.

Hopefully, going forward, he'll be careful to make only positive, respectful comments about the other doctors and clear up any of the negative implications he’s left hanging over their work.

But, make no mistake, this is damage control for Dr. Fuhrman. His professional reputation is in shatters after Dr. Campbell’s comments. He can make excuses, and his supporters (or those who dislike conflict) can implore us to stop talking about this, but Dr. Fuhrman must know that these charges will haunt him for many years to come.

I feel some empathy for him because we all do foolish, egotistical things and make mistakes, but this whole mess is his own making. The fallout from his behavior has obviously been coming for some time. I’m sure he had many opportunities to make amends with Dr. Campbell, Dr. Esselstyn, and others privately, yet due to his resistance, he’s now been forced to do so here in a public forum.

Those who support him should accept that Dr. Fuhrman, for all his groundbreaking, pioneering spirit, is a mere mortal and has, unfortunately, shot himself in the proverbial foot.

Please realize that this isn't Dr. McDougall's fault, or Dr. Campbell's fault, or the fault of anyone here for bringing the truth out into the open. It's simply the truth.

Yet, there's really nothing more to be gained by hashing it out further. Dr. Fuhrman has struck a more humbled, conciliatory tone, and, presumably, he's trying to make amends with the other doctors, especially Dr. Campbell, privately.

We'll see if this holds on his board and he fosters a more unified atmosphere. Those of you who are on both boards will have to let us know.

As long as he stops publicly denigrating his colleagues, I think these exchanges have been extremely successful.

[harry]

it is not going to help this struggle by attacking each other personally...stick to the facts and we will hopefully improve our health....i think it is healthy that there are differences of opinion..but we need to be respectful.....from harry

[ParsleyPatch]

it is not going to help this struggle by attacking each other personally...stick to the facts and we will hopefully improve our health....i think it is healthy that there are differences of opinion..but we need to be respectful.....from harry

Harry, I don't think anyone would disagree with this. In fact, posters here have been as respectful as possible, stuck to the facts, and have been shedding light on a dark problem. It's never been about "differences of opinion," but rather about Dr. Fuhrman being disrespectful to his colleagues. And every time Dr. Fuhrman makes a post on this forum, he opens himself up to comments on his work and his character. He would do well to stick to his own forum IMHO.

[txveggie]

I thank all of these doctors for the work they are doing, if there are problems between them I trust they are grown ups and can work it out for themselves.

[ParsleyPatch]

I thank all of these doctors for the work they are doing, if there are problems between them I trust they are grown ups and can work it out for themselves.

I don't think that's the point. Dr. McDougall has done so much for so many, he feels like a good friend to those of us who have benefited from his generous giving. And when a friend has been maligned, it's only natural for supporters to want to stand by him and defend his name and his work. Many people are outraged by what has been going on-- for a long time now, I might add. They are not about to ignore it.