Diabetes and Carbohydrates

[rlandis]

Please forgive me if I'm wrong, but as one who has been recently diagnosed with type II diabetes, I was told to limit carbs in my eating regimen. I'm very interested in the MCDougall program, but since it's so carb dependent, is there a problem consuming so much carbs and being diabetic?

[SactoBob]

I am sure that Jeff will give you a great answer, but before he does, you might google for Dr. Barnard's video lecture on Type 2 Diabetes. His study, in my mind, conclusively proves that a proper application of the McDougall type diet is best for Type 2 in direct comparison to the restricted carb diet recommended by the ADA.

I tried the ADA diet and it did not work for me. With the McDougall/Esselstyn plan I am now off my diabetes meds entirely and down about 60 pounds. With this problem, you want to really limit flour products and maybe somewhat limit fruits, depending on your tests. But pay attention to what Jeff says, and you are definitely in the right place.

[Symphonyofdreams]

From the research i've done High Fat diet is the problem more so then the carbs. If you look at the countries that eat mosty carbs they have little to no blood sugar issues and the countries that eat alot of fat like US, UK, Germany and most the west have alot of issues. Of course no one should be eating refined carbs like white flower, sugar ect only whole foods.

[Riva]

As I mentioned in the Health forum I have recently tightened up and am working on the cholesterol with ADHERENCE to the plan. My cholesterol hasn't gone to where I want it with "pretty good" adherence so I am moving to full adherence. Vegan, no fake meats, no nuts or seeds and not a DROP of oil. And whole foods except max 2 slices of WW bread a day and an occasional WW pasta which I don't like much anyway.

Here is my question: Sugar

I like to put a little sugar on grapefruit...which is a season treat for me...which is to say - now.

I like to put a little sugar on my oat meal which is a twice a day affair.

McDougall books seem to ok a little bit of sugar. Esseltyne doesn't mention it in his AVOID list although later in his book there is a paragraph on sugar elevating something about insulin and then causing cholesterol to rise. Seems like a Tablespoon of sugar a day might not cause me to fail.

Opinions? Or a link to a prior discussion would be much appreciated.
Riva

[bigbear]

I am a diabetic and have some serious questions about this diet. Please tell me how in the world my body is going to determine the difference between a bagel and a bunch of brown rice or a baked potato when both of the foods will hit my body like a rush and spike my blood sugar. I just don't get it as it makes no sense to me. Maybe I am missing something so please inform me. Thanks..Bigbear..

[JeffN]

Greetings

For those of you who are new, it is understandable that this program may not make sense to you and may be different than the information you are hearing or have heard before from health professionals.

You are asking some "big" questions that have no simple answer. However, while there is no simple "sound bite" answer to all your questions, this website and this forum is loaded with free information on this topic.

My recommendation is for you to begin to read the main website and the this forum and both have been organized to help you do this.

I would recommend you start here..

http://drmcdougall.com/med_hot_diabetes.html

In addition, while there is no "Diabetes" hot topic in this forum (Which I will soon fix), here are some discussion in this forum that will be of benefit to you.

Diabetes
http://drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6321
http://drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10136
http://drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6969
http://drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7671
http://drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8615
http://drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9455

Calorie Density, Weight Loss, BMI, How Much To Eat
http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6032
http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6916

Intact Whole Grains vs Refined Processed Grains
http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6045
http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6512
http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6122

Sugars, Agave, Honey, Stevia, Etc
http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5666

Take some time and begin to read and understand the information. Then if you have a more specific question, let me know.

In Health
Jeff

[bigbear]

come on, mcdougall writes: Change them to a low-fat, high-fiber, plant-based diet: the McDougall diet. The diet should be based around starches with the addition of fruits and vegetables – there are no added vegetable oils. Sample foods are: oatmeal, whole wheat pancakes or potatoes for breakfast. Lunch can be soups, salads, and sandwiches. And dinner may be thought of in terms of ethnic dishes, like Mexican burritos, Chinese Mu Shu vegetables, Thai curried rice, or Italian whole grain pasta.

This is just not healthy..I am a type 2 diabetic and I know my blood sugars intimately..this is a killer diet for me..Starches, carbs, very little protein..I would have to double up my meds just to keep my glucose down.

[Rjay]

Hey bigbear,

Try to suspend your disbelief and just look around a bit.

[Chumly]

bigbear,

Have you ever entered your food in a program that tells you how much you eat like fitday.com? You may want to start there and see just how much you're eating first. By cutting down fat, you drop a huge amount of calories plus, fat interferes with the uptake of insulin and has a much bigger affect on your blood sugar than you realize. Writing down all the food you eat and getting an idea what your actual caloric intake is a good start. Many people on this website have dropped weight and eliminated diabetic medications following this plan. Read Dr. Neal Barnard's book on this and you will have a better understanding.

Michael

[toadfood]

bigbear, I strongly recommend that you read Dr. Neal Barnard's Program for Reversing Diabetes (book), and visit www.pcrm.org Dr. Barnard did a peer-reviewed study, published in Diabetes Care, which showed that a McDougall-type diet was significantly better than the ADA-recommended (carb counting) diet in helping people lose weight and lower their blood sugar. My own experience is that on the McDougall plan I have lower blood sugar and weigh less than I did when I was following the ADA plan -- and it's a lot easier for me to stick to. I eat lots of oatmeal, rice, potatoes, beans, veggies, and fruits. My A1c is 6.0.

You have to do what is best for you -- but please review the science before making a decision.

[SactoBob]

That this program lowers blood sugars better than the traditional ADA type diet is not an opinion but an observable and provable fact.

Dr. Barnard did the crossover study, which you should research.

Typical type 2 diabetics were divided into 2 groups - no fudging with the test subjects. The diet was followed closely for compliance. One group did the ADA diet and the second group did the McDougall type diet. After a long enough period of time, both patients dropped their A1C values, but the McDougall group did significantly better.

Then the groups switched. Those who had been doing ADA did McDougall, and those that had been doing McDougall did the ADA. Once again, the group on the McDougall type plan did better.

There are probably different theories as to why this is so. Simplistic thinking would lead you to predict, as you believe, that more carbs would make things worse. But if you are doing your carbs as a whole food plant based diet, you do better than any other program.

I don't need to understand the theory to understand the bottom line. By going to this program over the last year I have dropped 60 pounds, about 2 points off my A1C, and am off my Actos 45mg. My doc even told me to stop testing - he was pretty impressed. He wouldn't even renew my rx for the testing strips because I don't need them (after maybe 10 years on Actos and frequent testing and scolding)

I'm coming up to 1.5 years on the plan now, and am scheduled for another A1C, which I am confident will still be fine. But even if it isn't, I have proven that I do better on this diet than the ADA in my own case.

I don't blame you for being skeptical. I was, and nobody should be believed merely because they make a claim. Dr. Barnard's work seems conclusive, and I have not heard anybody claim that his test was in any way biased or rigged (like the tests sponsored by the commercial interests). But do check out Dr. Barnard's studies. I am sure that Jeff can provide you with numbers from his experience at the McDougall and Pritikin programs.

Oh, yeah, I found the ADA diet almost impossible to follow. The program I am on now is easy - I eat all I want of healthy foods.

[bigbear]

I am not going with or supporting the ADA diet. My wife tried that and all that diet does is make you be able to maintain blood sugars while still continuing to take your meds. I am looking to get off my meds. I have been seriously looking at the Atkins eating plan. It makes a lot of sense as I have read his book New Diet Revolution. He also has a lot of clinical evidence that the plan will allow you to stop taking your meds. I am looking around but from what I see of this "diet" I would have to literally give up everything that I enjoy eating...primarily meat..Just don't think it would be something that would work for me.

[SactoBob]

If you don't want to give up the foods that you currently love, this program will not work for you. But if you give it a try, you will find that you will eventually like the new foods just as much as what you like now.

You can find the reason for that in Doug Lisle's lecture, which you can see at the Veg. Society of Hawaii. He also has a book and a dvd named "The Pleasure Trap"

If the Atkins program worked, I don't think that the founder would have died obese and from a stroke type event. There are just so many reasons why I think that it is such a dangerous plan.

But if you are looking for a diet that will give you the max pleasure from where you are now, the program here is not that diet. It really depends on how important your current foods are in comparison to your health.

[bigbear]

At least as far as Dr Atkins..from what I have read he was not obese and he died from complications after falling on ice and hitting his head..Don't know where you got the info you have but it is not accurate. And no, I do not want to give up meat..or for that matter everything else that is required that you give up in order to do this program. I am going to ask my physician about this program to see if he is familiar with it. Can you tell me, from what I have seen of this diet..you can't have any meat, no fish, chicken, turkey, nothing? Or am I reading this wrong..thanks for the info..

[Purdy]

I am looking around but from what I see of this "diet" I would have to literally give up everything that I enjoy eating...primarily meat..Just don't think it would be something that would work for me.

I have to agree with you..... Though the diet works great for so many Type 2's here, it would not work for you, because meat seems to be your most enjoyable food and something you appear unwilling to give up.

I just wonder though, if you really learned and were convinced this diet would improve your health and chances for a longer life, would you still choose eating the meat?

You see, I'm uncertain if you just don't believe it will work, or you just love the meat so much, you don't want to accept that it might work?

As long as you know the true facts, then any choice you make is certainly acceptable. Life is a series of trade offs in so many areas..
Work, diet, exercise...having children or not. Each to his own path.