Michelle’s Loosing Fibromyalgia and Weight Journal

[lmggallagher]

Hey Lizzy - right now all I have is attitude - some good and some bad

I do know better on the foods I was using in the first recipe - but the weirdness is I didn't have such bad reactions to them before. I think Nicole has said this too - when you eat the WRONG stuff the flare now is much worse but it lasts less time. then again there are things she was intolerant of that she can now eat. I think I need a very long time to heal before I can get to that later point.

Oddly, eating SAD is not as painful to me as this WOE is because it isn't vegetable centric - the fodmaps are in the veggies and fruits not the meat and dairy. So my health goes down the drain on SAD but the pain is more manageable - especially on dairy with it's built in opiods for the pain I might encounter

[Lizzy_F]

:lol: Hey Lizzy - right now all I have is attitude - some good and some bad

I do know better on the foods I was using in the first recipe - but the weirdness is I didn't have such bad reactions to them before. I think Nicole has said this too - when you eat the WRONG stuff the flare now is much worse but it lasts less time. then again there are things she was intolerant of that she can now eat. I think I need a very long time to heal before I can get to that later point.

Oddly, eating SAD is not as painful to me as this WOE is because it isn't vegetable centric - the fodmaps are in the veggies and fruits not the meat and dairy. So my health goes down the drain on SAD but the pain is more manageable - especially on dairy with it's built in opiods for the pain I might encounter

Yikes.

Keep on truckin' Michelle. You seem so determined and that mindset will help you find your way!! It just seems so complicated!

[lmggallagher]

Hi Lizzy:

Again, thanks so much for your encouragement - It is so comforting to come in here on bad days and find that someone is wishing me well

[lmggallagher]

Yesterday -
Weight: ?
Sleep: slept fitful and went back to sleep after waking at 3:30 am
Exercise: No Egoscue
Morning Sun:
MWL:slipped again and had some chocolate
Meditation: 20 mins
Friends, family and fun: just right
Today
Fibro: pain - 10 fatigue - 9

Lizzy is right it's really complicated because of the FODMAPS factor. I have decided to go back to the base FODMAPS diet - I am just tired of feeling terrible all the time. Plus, once on it I have no cravings - unless I have had little sleep. I also loose weight along with symptoms. But it is really limiting and hard.

Still the instant pot is a huge help here. I have decided to start out with just the FODMAPS soup stock and a soup. I can do daily variations on the soup though not by much. Some days I'll have it with potatoes others - quinoa, millet - what have you. Pretty much I can have tomatoes, green beans, carrots, chives, green onion (green parts only), zucchini, red peppers, green peppers, alfalfa sprouts, spinach, eggplant, broccoli (though I seem to have problems with it) cucumber, radishes, kale, lettuces, Japanese pumpkin, turnips and parsnips. With fruit so far what is OK is: melon, pineapple, blueberries, raspberries and bananas. Beans: only canned lentils: 1/4 cup and garbanzos 1/2 cup.

There are others I can have in limited amounts but that is so hard to keep track of just now that I am going to overlook it until I am so bored with what I can eat that I resort to measuring out these other things.

Beans can really get me as they contain the natural saccharides - oglios it's this group that seems to be my biggest nemesis so far. The other groups are polyols, fructose and lactose. Lucky me I am already vegan so the lactose components aren't any issue at all

Fructose and polyols are in fruits and can gang up on you in twos and where watermelon is concerned 3s. I had watermelon summer before last a few times and it was beyond terrible for me. I think that is when I started thinking elimination diet. when I was having problems with the fruits on the elimination diet Nicole mentioned the FODMAPs elimination diet and from what I have done on it so far it's CLEAR that this is a good part of my issues. Those saccharides above can increase the pain to the highest levels, fatigue, headaches, tummy aches, bloating, make me feel God-awful nauseous, and have the worst IBS imaginable. That's where I was after my first Instant Pot recipe - I am pretty clear what got me in that recipe was the white beans and onions - boy was I ever sick for days over that.

Last night I made my first FODMAPS OK stock and soup in the instant pot. Both super yummy - I am going to be fine with this as it's not that hard not time consuming. Thing is it's a ton of veggies - I have a hard time believing making your own stock saves money? I will start saving scraps now for stock to see if that helps.

Meanwhile - I couldn't feel worse - but today will be my first completely MWL and FODMAPS day for a long time. AS I recall I felt worse for about two weeks and then felt pretty wonderful thereafter - fingers crossed nothing will make me veer from that goal

Later that day:

what I ate today all FODMAPS OK:

B:Sunrise Mesa cornflakes ( Patsy Catsos FODMAPS expert and trainer of my RD too almond milk/flax meal
L: kitchen sink salad - mixed greens/spinach/quinoa/carrot/tomato/chives/cucumber/lemon juice
S: blood orange (this was a new thing but it's on the OK list so - let's see) sure tasted wonderful
D: soup (with my homemade fodmaps OK stock) collards/green beans/tomatoes/chives/sage/over potatoes
S: red grapes.

It all worked very simply today - and I was not in the kitchen for more than 1/2 hour for any meal - yay on that! I love the instant pot. I think I could have made the same soup stove top in the same time - from pressure start up to vent period - but the taste is so much better and all the veggies are perfectly done. No matter how small I cut carrots for stove top soup they are never done with the rest of the recipe and in the slow cooker everything is so mushy and bland sometimes even acrid depending what one is cooking by comparison and now with IP they are perfect!

[Starch Chick]

Wow, I'm sorry, Michelle. This seems so complicated to keep track of

[lmggallagher]

Hey Beth - yep complicated is completely correct and is exactly why I failed so far. Not to mention gained pain and weight - skipping back into uncomplicated territory. That is, vegan deli eating - help....wait no I am over it! Seriously over it.

Day two back to fodmaps is going well though - I just have to KEEP IT SIMPLE - thank goodness there is a phone app listing the foods that now goes with me to the store!!! And deli food is not calling to me at all - so far.

[lmggallagher]

Yesterday -
Weight: ?
Sleep:better but darned Cat Weasel 3:30 am again
Exercise: No Egoscue
Morning Sun:
MWL: was perfect
Meditation: oops
Friends, family and fun: just right
Today
Fibro: pain - 6 fatigue - 7 going down

I was very good yesterday - and boy I did not have the energy to do much otherwise.

B: cornflakes/alm milk/flax meal
L: kitchen sink salad/quinoa
D: fodmaps ok soup over potatoes
S: blood orange/grapes

Today I will do likewise. It's so nice to have veggie stock made up and just adding a few veggies in the Instant Pot for a really yummy soup in 30 mins start to finish. I really don't think I will mind this as my regiment for a good long while. Particularly, because I am feeling better already.

However, to be clear I do not feel great: I feel nauseous and somewhat head-achy along with the standard pain and fatigue. My tummy could be happier too it's a bit raw - but I don't have any IBS symptoms except the terrible bloating. I think another week or two and this will be behind me. There is kind of a detox stage going into this. I had much the same thing going into McDougall anyway - this is more pronounced than that but it feels like mending too.

I will be off of MWL a bit to add in some tea today - I am really groggy and that helps me to get my day going or it doesn't happen. FODMAPS allows caffeine - McD doesn't but it's not ideal either way because I think it does increase the pain load some - whilst improving the fatigue - give take.

[nicoles]

Michelle, I am here visiting you!

Sorry to hear of the detox pain. May it be a fruitful and healing discomfort, at the very least, if it must be so.

Now,lets get ready to ROOOOOMBA!

xoxox

Nicole

[lmggallagher]

Hi Nicole:)

Thanks for the Roomba Rhumba - most excellent. I will play it for the Wee Beastie as he does his morning rounds. I wonder what the results will be like as he dances about to that!

[lmggallagher]

Yesterday -
Food:
B: corn flakes/banana/flax meal/oat milk
L: kithcen sink sandwich/quinoa
D: tomatoes and green beans over potatoes
S: blood orange

Weight: ?
Sleep:better but darned Cat Weasel 4:30 am
Exercise: No Egoscue
Morning Sun:
MWL: was perfect again:)
Meditation: 30 mins
Friends, family and fun: just right
Today
Fibro: pain - 5 fatigue - 6 going down

PS: After breakfast on days when the sleep is less than needed duration I get a huge low energy feeling after breakfast. My observation is that it's usually the breakfast of corn flakes.banana/flax meal/banana. I will try it without banana tomorrow to see if it's a sugar issue?

So far today is much better than yesterday. The fatigue of not getting enough sleep is still there. I wish I could get Weasel on a normal eating schedule. I had to switch the cats to all wet food when he got kidney disease. Since I have been on this WOE my thinking is all things health-wise can be solved by right eating. We have reversed much of his kidney problem now with a very expensive wet food - but they are used to snacking on kibbles which ar no longer allowed (very bad for kidneys). Plus, Weasel is very finicky he will not eat food that has been out for more than and hour. This means he is waking me up even when there is food in his bowl - spoiled brat I say! But one can not avoid a siamese when they talk - he can wake the neighbors to if I let him go on!

When I lived in Sacramento - he used to wake me by swinging on the interior window's plantation shutters - but back then he used to let me sleep in until 6 or so. I long for those days again!

Anyway - today so far I am feeling much better. The tummy and head seemed to have settled much more and it's just down to regular fibro levels. Yay for this - the bad eating flares may pass faster and that may have been all it is - not a detox level of stuff. Still I don't take for granted that just eating right is going to mean no weird symptoms beyond the norm- given my norm isn't normal :/

I feel that the bloating is going down too. clothes a bit looser than just from weight loss. I am back to just weighing Fridays because the swings depress me but I do think I am loosing again. I am trying to find out what is a safe amount to loose a week. There is a scaled answer with a formula given by Jeff fat v. lean boody mass- essentially at what point are you loosing muscle instead of fat. Apparently at my BMI this is not something I need to ponder but when I get in the overweight range maybe I should be concerned.

I worry about this because the RD I saw to help me figure out a MWL/FODMAPS menu plan was upset that I was loosing as much as two pounds a week when I was around 200 pounds.

Re: Jeff, Question about reducing % of body fat....

Postby JeffN » Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:12 am

Clary wrote:Hi Jeff,
Generally speaking, if a person loses several pounds (say over 10#) on a healthful, nutritious diet (let's use Mary's Mini as an example) and changes nothing else (except the amount or types of food eaten), will the % of body fat go down automatically as the weight goes down? --or is some type of additional aerobic or other exercise needed to reduce % of body fat? or________???

Thanks.



Hi Clary

Well, you ask a simple question but are going to get a complicated answer.

However, before I give you the complicated answer, realize that whenever anyone loses weight, they will usually lose a combination of both fat and muscle. So, the simple answer you will lose fat and more than likely you will also lower your % body fat as your weight goes down on a healthy diet. Proper exercise (type and amount) can help increase the reduction in % body fat and help maintain muscle mass and/or bone density.

Now, the complicated answer. (And a thanks to my fellow traveler on the path of health Antonio Z, who helped find this information.)

One of the biggest determinants of your muscle loss to fat loss ratio (when losing weight) and your muscle gain to fat gain ratio (when gaining weight) is your initial level of body fatness and will be a factor in how your body responds to over eating or under eating. This makes "sense" if you think about it from an evolutionary health perspective.

There have been several studies that have been done to explore this phenomenon and the results of these investigations were compiled into one review article

Body Fat Content Influences the Body Composition Response to Nutrition and Exercise GILBERT B. FORBESa (Ann N Y Acad Sci 2000 May;904:359-65)

In most situations involving a significant change in body weight, both fat-free body mass (FFM) and body fat participate, but the relative contribution of FFM and fat to the total weight change is influenced by the initial body fat content. Overfeeding: In experiments of at least 3-weeks' duration, the weight gain of thin people comprises 60-70% lean tissues, whereas in the obese it is 30-40%. Underfeeding: In humans, there is an inverse curvilinear relationship between initial body fat content and the proportion of weight loss consisting of lean tissue. The same trend holds for animals and birds, including loss during hibernation. Another factor is the magnitude of the energy deficit: as energy intake is reduced, lean tissue makes up an increasing fraction of the total weight loss. Exercise: If individuals lose much weight with exercise, the result is usually some loss of lean tissue as well as fat, and once again the proportion of lean loss to total weight loss is greater in thin people than in those who have larger body fat burdens. Members of twin pairs often differ in weight. In thin individuals, lean accounts for about half of the intrapair weight difference, whereas in the obese it accounts for only one quarter. Body fat content must be taken into account in evaluating body composition changes induced by nutrition and exercise.

From the article, a predicative equation was generated that allows us to calculate the amount of muscle and the amount of fat that we can expect to gain, based on our initial fat weight.

Lean Mass Gain / Weight Gain = 10.4 / (10.4 + initial fat weight (kg) )

In addition, this very same equation is valid when dieting for the prediction of muscle loss and fat loss.

Lean Mass Loss / Weight Loss = 10.4 / (10.4 + initial fat weight (kg) )

%BF . . . . lb LBM loss (%)
30 . . . . . 3.53 (35.3%)
25 . . . . . 3.95 (39.5%)
20 . . . . . 4.50 (45.0%)
15 . . . . . 5.21 (52.1%)
10 . . . . . 6.20 (62.0%)
5 . . . . . 7.66 (76.6%)

If your initial weight is 140 lb, and you lose ten pounds, the amount of lean body mass that you lose increases as your percentage of body fat decreases.

At 15% Body Fat, over half of the weight that you lose is lean body mass (LBM) (~52%).

At 10% Body Fat, 62% of the weight that you lose is LBM.

While these equations are not perfect, they are helpful. In addition, these equations were mostly generated using diet alone. The addition of exercise will change things. My own experiences in gaining/losing weight have come close to these predictive numbers.

For those of you who enjoy all these numbers, enjoy!

For those who don't, the bottom line is the best way to lose weight is to do it slowly(!!!), and through the combination of a healthy diet and a moderate amount of exercise.

In Health
Jeff

No there is an answer that gives me no clue - but it's interesting

I have also heard that 1% of current weight is OK until you hit the appropriate BMI for your height. The English NHS site says 1 to 2 pounds a week. The RD said one pound a week. I think it's safe to say that weight loss and exercise should go hand-in-hand but I am not really there yet. So I am going to go with the 1% and hope that I can get back to more than just the Egoscue - soon.

[lmggallagher]

Re: Michelle’s Loosing Fibromyalgia and Weight Journal
Yesterday - was a bomb shell
Food:
B: corn flakes/flax meal/oat milk
L: kitchen sink sandwich/quinoa
D: Deli veggie/humus sandwich on WW bread - potato chips
S:grapes

Weight: ?
Sleep:better but Cat Weasel 5:30 am not so bad I got back to sleep
Exercise: No Egoscue
Morning Sun:
MWL: was bad
Meditation: 1 hour
Friends, family and fun: just right
Today
Fibro: pain - 8 fatigue - 4 going down

PS: Problem: After breakfast on days when the sleep is less than needed duration I get a huge low energy feeling after breakfast. My observation is that it's usually the breakfast of corn flakes.banana/flax meal/banana. I will try it without banana tomorrow to see if it's a sugar issue? Solution: today do much better without banana - no lethargy after breakfast.

So it's a given - I must have dinner ready to roil when I get home from the food closet. Otherwise I drive directly to the"Food Museum" for one of their deli sandwiches and a often a snack too. Yesterday was really bad as I got actual chips drowning in oil. Today I am up a pound for sure - though I didn't weigh.

I ate and took a very long nap - I was exhausted all day - way beyond normal fibro fatigue. the brain didn't work at all and I was even having a hard time with conversation - find the right words. I really need more sleep - today with pretty good sleep at least 7 hours I am doing fine - except for the pain of eating really badly. Whole wheat bread - who am I kidding. Though I did order sour dough which is not so much a problem for gluten avoiders - reason unknown.

[lmggallagher]

Yesterday
Food:
B: corn flakes/flax meal/oat milk
L: veggie wrap in city all ok but the wrap part - it was tomato though
D: my soup and potatoes
S:grapes

Weight: ?
Sleep:better
Exercise: Egoscue at Egoscue
Morning Sun: some
MWL:
Meditation: 30 mins on train
Friends, family and fun: just right
Today
Fibro: pain - 7 fatigue - 8 going up

Yesterday I was a wreck. I hate to miss Egoscue clinic days though, so I pushed through and it was probably a mistake. I was so exhausted I slept in the train and almost missed my connection to the light rail going into the City. Luckily, it was late and I had a chance at some fresh air walking, which gave me a bit of a wake up. Then in the City I was so foggy I couldn't really remember my route to the clinic and got a bit lost - all typical fibro fog at it's worst - but nothing went completely haywire.

The Egoscue appointment was good but hard - as I was in pretty high pain some of the new moves put me in a bit of a muscle cramp. I did get a whole new menu and also my 5th session evaluation. They do this by taking front back and both side views and analyzing your posture. Other than being hideously fat in these photos ( boy is that motivating today ) things are very much improved. I am in perfect alignment from the waist down now. I know this has made all the improvement to my knee issue - which is all but gone now. Occasionally, at night I do feel a bit of slipping and pain but compared to before I started Egoscue it's hardly worth noticing.

I am improving from the waist up too but the back curvature is still noticeable. Before the photos I talked to the therapist about the areas that I am really tight in still and as with most fibro folk it's neck, shoulders and chest area that are most taut and painful. Now I see those areas I have concern with are exactly those that the photos show too. So it's really interesting.

My new menu of exercises focuses on the whole body of course but I now have the e-cises that will stretch me out to the maximum in the shoulder neck and chest area. Boy did it hurt at first to start on those. Tomorrow will be easier I hope. I am skipping today because I will do e-cises from the book to help with the sinuses - the sinus headache is just terrible.

After the session I was too tired and too much in pain to do my usual neighborhood exploration. That was a big bummer because I really love walking through the neighborhoods of San Francisco and finding new and exciting places. All I could muster was a 15 minute or half and hour walk down Market Street. Then I jumped on the light rail and again fell right to sleep. when I made the train connection I again slept in the train even.

Finally at home I ate a snack of grapes and fell fast asleep in a late afternoon nap - followed by a night of sound sleep and today.....
I still feel like crap I have lots of muscle pain and major sinus congestion plus, headache. I am also completely nauseous and have no idea why I feel this way when I got such good sleep for a change.

I hardly lost anything this week kind of a bummer but will try harder next week - I had some slips - but nothing like it was before.

[lmggallagher]

Yesterday
Food:
B: corn flakes/flax meal/oat milk
L: kitchen sink salad with quinoa
D: McDougall soup
S:grapes

Weight: ?
Sleep: good until almost 6am but still fatigued and
Symptoms: sinus headache bad one, leg pain top of thighs from Egoscue
Exercise: No Egoscue yesterday
Morning Sun: none foggy here
MWL: yes
Meditation: 20 mins
Friends, family and fun: just right

Today
Fibro: pain - 6 fatigue - 8
Sleep: good until 4 am up then back to bed for 1.5 hours til 9am
Gratitude to start the day: New Egoscue menu is back to an hour again, whew

Sleep is still the big issue: I just am not getting restful sleep, though yesterday came close, I was still fatigued yesterday. Still somewhat head-achy. Will do Egoscue today, yesterday I was feeling too much leg pain to repeat the Egoscue, plus the sinus headache.

I had really bad vertigo at the Egoscue clinic after getting up from the session. The therapist has me walk several lengths of the room to assess my gait before, sometimes during and definitely after. This is how they tell that the menu they have just worked up for us is effective. I could not get my bearings at all - had to find a wall and then it took several minutes to be able to walk a straight line again. When I could my walking was much better. Though Johnny said this is not unusual at all for clients I found it really uncomfortable and didn't really want to repeat it yesterday with the bad headache. Part of it is I live in a glass house here, the floor is not padded with a thick mat - I didn't fall Thursday but it felt as if I might - so now that the sinuses are more settled - after breakfast - I will attempt the Egoscue again.

Other symptoms are not too bad - except the fatigue and this is the one I can't shake - it goes with the poor sleep. I kind of hoped my walk in the City would help with the sleep - it did but it was still not a good quality of sleep to get me beyond the fatigue. I am some what discouraged that the good eating combined with a bit of exercise did not turn me around some as it has in the past. Not like I have been consistent with it though - gee I guess that might be that next goal

[nicoles]

Aw, Michelle, so sorry to hear you are feeling so bad I wish I could send you some good sleep!

{{{HUGS}}}

xoxo


Nicole

[lmggallagher]

Hey Nicole:

((((hugs back))))

I think you are Nicole!!!! I am hoping that exercise will bring back with it the sleep I need and you are such good support to me in the eating right and going gently into exercise. When I was up in the City for my Egoscue appointment I tired a walk again. I am really missing that - but alas I was so tired from little sleep that the best I could pull was about 1/2 hour. So far every day of my appointments I have done 5 or more. I think I can do that because the therapist and I are working specifically on what ails me that exact day. Thereafter< I am completely loose, flexible and if I have had the sleep - energetic. Here's to those days replicating in my future.

The good news is I am half way through my sessions and also half my body is in perfect alignment according to the alignment photos and Johnny's assessment of my current posture and gait. so the lower body from the waist down is fine. It's very clear this is true as the knee pain is generally gone unless I do heavy lifting and put strain there - it dissipates perfectly in the next days Egoscue e-cises though. This is a really good feeling - because as not good as it is right now some areas are much better than they have been